Play with some 'real' kit on my kitchen table.

[a_dad]

Thankyou again.  

Sorry mistook 'everything' to mean 'every-pir', but yes everything means everything!

[a_dad]

After getting waylaid for a wee while (months), I got some time and budget to get a few parts.  

I got the 'Scantronic I-ON 10' with a keypad and the bell box `SDR-WEXT-00`

The boy did really well for 2 plus hours cutting insulation and joining terminals where ever his dad pointed. Bonus: at the end there was a some flashing lights and nothing caught fire.  By some measures, a success. 

By other measures, less so. We have one q20, one keypad, one bell box and one panel wired to mains, on a test bench so I can figure out what I am doing.  Terminal labels are not immediately obvious, not sure what connect to what.  I am aware I have no battery in the unit, see photo.  I can't get it out of 'press address key on the keypad' mode, which is how it fires up.  What works on youtube and blogs isn't working for us.

when I get far enough: I have 8 pirs, instruction says I can only have 4 in star configuration wiring, they have to be in serial, so I would do 4 pairs, each pair in serial?

I think it is going to be tricky to fit all the cables into the two 0V terminals and the two 12V terminals.  Does anyone break that out into a separate wago or equivalent?

instructions indicate shielding should be earthed in the main panel.  Is there a typical way to do that - it is a sort of plasticized foil, does that electrically connect? There is an uninsulated wire bundle in the cable, is this an earth equivalent to the shielding, and would putting it into the panel earth count?

 

on the panel main board there is

- a single row 12 contact header labelled  comms/con3, with contacts 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, LF, RR, 0V, 12V - looks like a connector in my desktop pc

- a a dual row 2*10=20 contact header labelled con6, also looks like something in my desktop pc.

- a 4 contact terminal labelled keypad, labelled TB5 (now fully connected tot he keypad - this was straight forward)

- a 6 contact terminal labelled TB4, with contacts: OP1, OP2, OP3, TR (connected to 0v elsewhere - came like this), LS+, and LS-

- big 4 contact terminal 2 are 12v and 0 are 0V, maybe everything terminates here?

- a 9 pin terminal with 6 zone labels in pairs between adjacent triplets of terminals and

- a 6 pin terminal with 4 zone labels in pairs betwen adjacent triplets of terminals.  

 

I can't find 'trig' or 'stb' on the panel for the bell box.

Nothing is labelled tamper on the panel for the bell box.

the manual says this:
`
## Detector Wiring
### 4-wire CC

This uses a separate pair of wires for the alarm and tamper contacts. No end-of-line

resistors are used. Selecting 4-wire CC normally halves the maximum number of wired

zones that can connect to the i-on10. However, an ADP-10CC board can be fitted to

convert the ten FSL zones to ten 4-wire CC zones. Without the board fitted, the control unit

supports five 4-wire CC zones. If you are using an ADP-10CC board, select 2-wire FSL

2k2/4k7 as the wiring type.`

so this means I have 10 zones, and 8 pirs, so I have to use only 2 wire connection for tamper and alarm per pir, since 4 wires per pir will only allow 5 sensors? (Zones and sensors are not the same, or are they? No -? because you might have 2 sensors on a big space but it is one zone... ?

I am not really sure how to wire this. there are lost of 'jigsaw pieces' here. From what I've said what are the clangers?  Special prize to anyone whose list of 'this is what you've done wrong' reaches triple figures.  

oh the green tape is either pinning down a 'panel open' tamper switch, or keeping extra electrical legs out of the way to stop shorting.  

[al-yeti]

1 hour ago, a_dad said:

After getting waylaid for a wee while (months), I got some time and budget to get a few parts.  

I got the 'Scantronic I-ON 10' with a keypad and the bell box `SDR-WEXT-00`

The boy did really well for 2 plus hours cutting insulation and joining terminals where ever his dad pointed. Bonus: at the end there was a some flashing lights and nothing caught fire.  By some measures, a success. 

By other measures, less so. We have one q20, one keypad, one bell box and one panel wired to mains, on a test bench so I can figure out what I am doing.  Terminal labels are not immediately obvious, not sure what connect to what.  I am aware I have no battery in the unit, see photo.  I can't get it out of 'press address key on the keypad' mode, which is how it fires up.  What works on youtube and blogs isn't working for us.

when I get far enough: I have 8 pirs, instruction says I can only have 4 in star configuration wiring, they have to be in serial, so I would do 4 pairs, each pair in serial?

I think it is going to be tricky to fit all the cables into the two 0V terminals and the two 12V terminals.  Does anyone break that out into a separate wago or equivalent?

instructions indicate shielding should be earthed in the main panel.  Is there a typical way to do that - it is a sort of plasticized foil, does that electrically connect? There is an uninsulated wire bundle in the cable, is this an earth equivalent to the shielding, and would putting it into the panel earth count?

 

on the panel main board there is

- a single row 12 contact header labelled  comms/con3, with contacts 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, LF, RR, 0V, 12V - looks like a connector in my desktop pc

- a a dual row 2*10=20 contact header labelled con6, also looks like something in my desktop pc.

- a 4 contact terminal labelled keypad, labelled TB5 (now fully connected tot he keypad - this was straight forward)

- a 6 contact terminal labelled TB4, with contacts: OP1, OP2, OP3, TR (connected to 0v elsewhere - came like this), LS+, and LS-

- big 4 contact terminal 2 are 12v and 0 are 0V, maybe everything terminates here?

- a 9 pin terminal with 6 zone labels in pairs between adjacent triplets of terminals and

- a 6 pin terminal with 4 zone labels in pairs betwen adjacent triplets of terminals.  

 

I can't find 'trig' or 'stb' on the panel for the bell box.

Nothing is labelled tamper on the panel for the bell box.

the manual says this:
`
## Detector Wiring
### 4-wire CC

This uses a separate pair of wires for the alarm and tamper contacts. No end-of-line

resistors are used. Selecting 4-wire CC normally halves the maximum number of wired

zones that can connect to the i-on10. However, an ADP-10CC board can be fitted to

convert the ten FSL zones to ten 4-wire CC zones. Without the board fitted, the control unit

supports five 4-wire CC zones. If you are using an ADP-10CC board, select 2-wire FSL

2k2/4k7 as the wiring type.`

so this means I have 10 zones, and 8 pirs, so I have to use only 2 wire connection for tamper and alarm per pir, since 4 wires per pir will only allow 5 sensors? (Zones and sensors are not the same, or are they? No -? because you might have 2 sensors on a big space but it is one zone... ?

I am not really sure how to wire this. there are lost of 'jigsaw pieces' here. From what I've said what are the clangers?  Special prize to anyone whose list of 'this is what you've done wrong' reaches triple figures.  

oh the green tape is either pinning down a 'panel open' tamper switch, or keeping extra electrical legs out of the way to stop shorting.  

To much mixed up to read lol

 

Yeah use wago in the power 

Just now, al-yeti said:

To much mixed up to read lol

 

Yeah use wago in the power 

Reading bits and bobs

 

Set zone type to fsl or something like that then it's two wires only to the alarm and tamper terminals and two wires for power nothing more 

[al-yeti]

 

TR is tamper return 

It's linked to 0v as you take the link off to wire it to the bell box 

 

Op1,2,3 ususally the bell and Strobe and something else I think

[al-yeti]

 

 

Reading back a bit more not sure what you mean by star or series 

 

You just want the pirs on individual circuits and fsl and get whatever you need if another board is required 

 

Or get rid of smart phone and get. Basic phone ( JW advice) and buy a dog (Mr H  advice)

[a_dad]

Thanks that's helpful.  Sorry about the long post.  

[PeterJames]

20 hours ago, a_dad said:

so this means I have 10 zones, and 8 pirs, so I have to use only 2 wire connection for tamper and alarm per pir, since 4 wires per pir will only allow 5 sensors? (Zones and sensors are not the same, or are they? No -? because you might have 2 sensors on a big space but it is one zone... ?

You should only connect one sensor per zone unless they are none powered devices such as door contacts panic buttons etc. If you connect two sensors to one zone and have a false alarm it becomes difficult to tell which detector activated. Its less so with non powered devices as they normally either work or dont work. If you have a false alarm from a non powered device you can and it still works you can normally tell which one is failing by its resistance.

 

Using EOL doubles the devices lowers the amount of cores needed, it also means that the panel can tell you high resistance tamper faults when there are problems with the cable. It can be fiddly fitting EOL resistors in the detectors (some come with EOL's onboard and you just use the dipswitch's for the right values)

 

Most detectors have a 15 metre range if you have rooms bigger than this and want to use two motion detectors in the same room, try to make sure the coverage does not overlap. If overlapping coverage is unavoidable then use two different protocols such as a PIR and a Dual Tech. This is a requirement for monitored systems but it is also good practice for all systems. After a false alarm people tend to look at the log and see the last thing that activated and not get the full story from the log, it just means that they end up with several false alarms before the cause is found. 

 

Its great you son is involved in this, one of my NSI inspectors was on the Autistic spectrum, a bit of a strange character, but very very thorough and if something wasnt right he would find it.

[a_dad]

Oh, thanks too, those are helpful remarks.

[a_dad]

I think there are resistor in the texecom Q20s.  so I think I need to put resistors on the pirs, but where: 

 

looking in the back of my Q20s there are switches. one physical (don't think electrical at all) sets a physical plastic slider for pets versus normal (moves some lens cover or something?).  there are 2 dip switches, one does led flash and one does 'pet'/'G2' (not sure what G2 is) and has an arrow pointing to the pet/normal mechanical, 'lens slider'.  
 

there is an electrical sliding switch, labelled EOL, and has 6 positions.  next to each position there is notation in 2 columns, one labelled 'T' and one labelled 'A'

sw. T. A. 

1. O/C. O/C

2. 1k. 1k

3. 2k2. 4k7 - Texecom

4. 4k7. 6k8

5. 3k3. 3k3

6. 5k6. 5k6

are these inbuilt resistors? first column for tamper, second for alarm.  This is all in the photo above. 

so to use this texecom q20 with the eaton ion10 main panel, I think I need maybe 3 or 4.  - 

then I need to wire as FSL:
from panel zone0 (first) to pir Alarm 'A'
from pir alarm 'B' to pir tamper 'c' (tiny hop - what resistor?)
from pir tamper 'D' to panel zone0 (second).  

my alarm options (manual) are 4k7, 1k0, 2k2 and 4k7 again. The ion10 kit comes with 2k2 and 4k7, for eol.  
the Q20 has as above options.  
I can only use 4k7 resistor eol if I set alarm to 4k7 (which makes the tamper 2k2. )
I can only uset the 2k2 EOL resistor if I set the alarm to 4k7, (no alarm 2k2 option).  

so I could use either eol resitor, as long as I set the right inbuild resitors on the q20 pirs.  so there are 2 options. I will give that a go.

[al-yeti]

32 minutes ago, a_dad said:

I think there are resistor in the texecom Q20s.  so I think I need to put resistors on the pirs, but where: 

 

looking in the back of my Q20s there are switches. one physical (don't think electrical at all) sets a physical plastic slider for pets versus normal (moves some lens cover or something?).  there are 2 dip switches, one does led flash and one does 'pet'/'G2' (not sure what G2 is) and has an arrow pointing to the pet/normal mechanical, 'lens slider'.  
 

there is an electrical sliding switch, labelled EOL, and has 6 positions.  next to each position there is notation in 2 columns, one labelled 'T' and one labelled 'A'

sw. T. A. 

1. O/C. O/C

2. 1k. 1k

3. 2k2. 4k7 - Texecom

4. 4k7. 6k8

5. 3k3. 3k3

6. 5k6. 5k6

are these inbuilt resistors? first column for tamper, second for alarm.  This is all in the photo above. 

so to use this texecom q20 with the eaton ion10 main panel, I think I need maybe 3 or 4.  - 

then I need to wire as FSL:
from panel zone0 (first) to pir Alarm 'A'
from pir alarm 'B' to pir tamper 'c' (tiny hop - what resistor?)
from pir tamper 'D' to panel zone0 (second).  

my alarm options (manual) are 4k7, 1k0, 2k2 and 4k7 again. The ion10 kit comes with 2k2 and 4k7, for eol.  
the Q20 has as above options.  
I can only use 4k7 resistor eol if I set alarm to 4k7 (which makes the tamper 2k2. )
I can only uset the 2k2 EOL resistor if I set the alarm to 4k7, (no alarm 2k2 option).  

so I could use either eol resitor, as long as I set the right inbuild resitors on the q20 pirs.  so there are 2 options. I will give that a go.

Usually on the outer terminals 

 

A leg one

A

T

T leg two

 

Something like that

And the fsl has two choices of values in the menu of the alarm panel I think, unless newer versions give more options