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Guest g.reeve

optima plus 2 - rcd tripping

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Guest g.reeve

I have a ten year old Optima plus 2 alarm with 3 remote keypads, one bell box and and 8 pir's. When i deactivate the alarm in the morning or when I get home, the RCD trips.

I tried disconecting the earth to the panel but still the same.

Please can someone advise me

Thanks

Greg

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Sometimes the transformer in the control panel can trip the RCD as it see`s the TX coil as a short. Probably best to get a sparky in and swap its source to one without an RCD.


........................................................

Dave Partridge (Romec Service Engineer)

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Guest
Sometimes the transformer in the control panel can trip the RCD as it see`s the TX coil as a short.

33380[/snapback]

Think you're getting RCD and MCB mixed up here Dave, if an RCD sees a L-N short it won't do anything, it only protects earth faults, i.e. a leakage to earth somewhere. A MCB will trip on a dead L-N short as it protects against overload.

Greg, I think a service visit would be a good idea, tripping RCDs sound a bit drastic!

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Guest g.reeve

Thanks for the input guys.

All the circuits (3 Fuseboards) in my house are protected by an rcd, 100amp/100milliamp rated, so a non rcd supply to the panel is not an option.

I don't really want to pay for a service call when I can do the work myself, (I did install the panel ten years ago and have regularly changed the battery every 2 years)

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Guest jsd

Does it only trip on unsetting?

Surely there would be no difference?

Try to eliminate everything else, ie are you also switching on a light/security light.

You could try running te panel off its own battery without mains, setting/unsetting to prove if it is the alarm panel.

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Thanks for the input guys.

All the circuits (3 Fuseboards) in my house are protected by an rcd, 100amp/100milliamp rated, so a non rcd supply to the panel is not an option.

I don't really want to pay for a service call when I can do the work myself, (I did install the panel ten years ago and have regularly changed the battery every 2 years)

33399[/snapback]

I would pay for a service call,

A small charge to check the system out would be better than it not being the alarm and something else is faulty which could lead to a fire.


www.nova-security.co.uk

www.nsiapproved.co.uk

No PMs please unless i know you or you are using this board with your proper name.

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Does it only trip on unsetting?

Surely there would be no difference?

Is the system switching anything else on/off when set/unset..? Perhaps a security light or something..?


........................................................

Dave Partridge (Romec Service Engineer)

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Is the system switching anything else on/off when set/unset..? Perhaps a security light or something..?

33429[/snapback]

Dave think JSD asked him that already matey.

Does seem tricky dont it??? Might be something really daft like when hes pressing buttons on the panel it might be trapping a mains cable or the mains cable is loose to the panel mains input connections and sparking and thus tripping the mcb????

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As a qualified electrician and an SSAIB installer your electrics seem a bit strange, there should be 30ma protection for the socket outlets in your property !! if I were you I would get an electrician out to look at this urgently.

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As a qualified electrician and an SSAIB installer your electrics seem a bit strange, there should be 30ma protection for the socket outlets in your property !!

Woosh,

Can you explain your reasoning behind saying that a 30ma RCD should be installed for the socket outlets and not the 100ma.

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Woosh,

Can you explain your reasoning behind saying that a 30ma RCD should be installed for the socket outlets and not the 100ma.

33605[/snapback]

Not sure whether you're querying Woosh's reasoning or you're after general clarification but....

The sockets don't need 30mA protection, or 100mA protection unless it's on a TT system. The only sockets that need 30mA protection are the ones that are reasonably expected to supply portable equipment used outdoors. In general though any installation just gets a 30mA RCD stuck across all the sockets.

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To meet the requirements of BS7671 the socket outlets MUST be protected by a 30ma RCD to provide a disconnection time of less than 40ms. Hope this helps .

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BS 7671 (2001) states that ALL SOCKET outlets must be protected by a 30ma RCD.

Edited by Woosh

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Guest
BS 7671 (2001) states that ALL SOCKET outlets must be protected by a 30ma RCD.

33619[/snapback]

OOI, where?

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Just to be clear about this

BS 7671 IS NOT A STATUTORY DOCUMENT

the regulation numbers are 471-08-06 and 471-16-01

BUT

The Electricity at Work Regulations ARE A STATUTORY DOCUMENT and I have pasted an excert from that below.

It is best to use an RCD that is incorporated into the switchboard of your installation. This means that all circuits fed from that RCD are protected by the RCD. An RCD that is incorporated into an ordinary mains socket, or plugged into it, will protect anything that is attached to that socket, but it is possible that equipment may be plugged into another, unprotected, socket

I myself do not want to go to court with a barrister asking me why i did not fit a 30ma RCD at the switchboard.

Other people may wish to argue their case however that is their choice.

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Other people may wish to argue their case however that is their choice.

33629[/snapback]

Fair enough, I've beenarguing abou it for years! But, the EAW doesn't apply at home though!

I know there are various versions of this argument, it usually comes down to the electricians personal preference as to what gets RCD protected so we'll leave it at that.

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there is nothing wrong with using a 100ma rcd as a main switch, its considered as supplementry protection against indirect contact where the main form of protection is EEBADS (earthed equipotential bonding for automatic disconnection of supply)

and it is not a requirement to protect all socket outlets with a 30ma rcd, only the sockets that could supply portable appliances which could be used outside, however in a house its normal practice for all socket outlets to be rcd protected.

using the correct size and type of overcurrent protection should provide a 0.4s disconnection time i.e. a mcb to BS EN 61009 (mcb= miniture circuit breaker)

hope this as cleared the matter up!

the eawr word themselves very carefully, they say it is best to use an rcd but they dont say you must!

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Guest IM_Alarms
The Electricity at Work Regulations ARE A STATUTORY DOCUMENT and I have pasted an excert from that below.

It is best to use an RCD that is incorporated into the switchboard of your installation. This means that all circuits fed from that RCD are protected by the RCD. An RCD that is incorporated into an ordinary mains socket, or plugged into it, will protect anything that is attached to that socket, but it is possible that equipment may be plugged into another, unprotected, socket

33629[/snapback]

I wasn't planning to read through the EAW regs on a day off, but it caught my eye that you stated a quote from the rags as saying,'it is best'? This didn't sound very much like how a regulation would normally sound, so I got a copy out and couldn't find anything remotely like that. The only reference to an RCD and socket outlets is a part saying,' Danger may be reduced by the use of a residual current device'.

Maybe you could point us further, with this? Then we can contact NICEIC as they don't seem to know this either. Their technical manual doesn't mention any more than for sockets capable of external use etc.

Having said that, I will usually install a split load with all socket outlets on RCD.

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I wasn't planning to read through the EAW regs on a day off, but it caught my eye that you stated a quote from the rags as saying,'it is best'? This didn't sound very much like how a regulation would normally sound, so I got a copy out and couldn't find anything remotely like that. The only reference to an RCD and socket outlets is a part saying,' Danger may be reduced by the use of a residual current device'.

Maybe you could point us further, with this? Then we can contact NICEIC as they don't seem to know this either. Their technical manual doesn't mention any more than for sockets capable of external use etc.

Having said that, I will usually install a split load with all socket outlets on RCD.

33732[/snapback]

I think its in the IEE regs 473-03-04 but I could be wrong. I hate this book at the best of times so most probably have read it wrong before any one jumps down my throat :huh:

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there is nothing wrong with using a 100ma rcd as a main switch, its considered as supplementry protection against indirect contact where the main form of protection is EEBADS (earthed equipotential bonding for automatic disconnection of supply)

and it is not a requirement to protect all socket outlets with a 30ma rcd, only the sockets that could supply portable appliances which could be used outside, however in a house its normal practice for all socket outlets to be rcd protected.

using the correct size and type of overcurrent protection should provide a 0.4s disconnection time i.e. a mcb to BS EN 61009 (mcb= miniture circuit breaker)

hope this as cleared the matter up!

33658[/snapback]

Why are we looking at EAW. this will only refer you back to BS7671. MCELEC has answered the question above. To further clarify external use is a special location and therefore requires a disconnection less than .4s as do other special locations. If the system has a design incorporating 100ma rcd elcb the special location can have a dedicated 30ma protection after the 100ma switch. It is now recognised that any downstairs socket outlet could reasonably be used to feed external apparatus and that’s why we do this. Jef

Customers!

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Guest IM_Alarms

I was contesting Whoosh's arguement with Lurch, that ALL sockets must be on a 30mA RCD because the EAW regs said so !!!

The EAW regs do not refer to BS7671 any more than a suggestion that if you comply with BS7671 then you will probably achieve compliance with EAW regs.

:blink::P:D

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Guest

Notice I've decided to stay out of this one, I've had this argument loads of times on a newsgroup.

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Here ia a link to the Goverments website where the Statutory document is published. I know it does not apply to domestics but we are all talkinga load of waffle about nothing.

ALL DOMESTICS REQUIRE A 30MA RCD TO PROTECT THE SOCKET OUTLETS

END OF STORY !!! THE END !!! :no::no:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/electricity/faq.htm

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ALL DOMESTICS REQUIRE A 30MA RCD TO PROTECT THE SOCKET OUTLETS

END OF STORY !!! THE END !!! :no:  :no:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/electricity/faq.htm

33825[/snapback]

Thanks for the link, maybee you should have read it first. Not all domestic sockets require RCD only those as described in mcelecs post YES YES YES of course their is nothing to stop you protecting them but dont try kidding anyone that this is either a reg or a requirement of EAW it dont wash.

Jef


Customers!

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