I do think it's laughable on the signalling side.

1 hour ago, PeterJames said:

 But thats not really the standards fault is it? 

 

On another note how many times have you gone to quote a Fire Alarm and the customer hasnt had a FRA or worse the FRA doesnt give the grade of system required?

 

Both points valid, but the standards state a system has to be installed to a grade and they insurance companies know little about the grades of systems and i as the designer have to carry out a risk assessment  which i have no formal quals for and the insurance company accepts the spec.

 

Shouldn't the insurance companies be doing the risk assessments and passing what they require to us?

 

Should have put, as per Pete's post.

Edited July 10, 20169 yr by Nova-Security

9 hours ago, PeterJames said:

Why so angry??

Now I see it completely different from you EN50131 was not that far off 4737, The Grading was an improvement, alarm confirmation was an improvement, yes there were many things wrong with 50131 PD6662 made it workable (which again brings me back to my point) but you could say the same about 4737. 50131 did mean that I could employ French German and Polish engineers without having to provide to much training as they were already familiar with 50131 and that the purpose of having a EN standard end of the day.

 

Where did you pick up I was angry? I'm not. BTW confirmation predates EN introduction by more than 10 years in some cases. 

Your international mix of engineers should require zero changes in regard to standards if they were a true standard. Do I need to post a smiley?

8 hours ago, alarmcom said:

 BTW confirmation predates EN introduction by more than 10 years in some cases. 

 

 

We was using confirmation a long time ago before EN on abacus panels, even the old gardtec 800 had alarm B on it. What really annoyed me was our main panel at the time was the abacus which used pin 5 on the plug on, then for EN somebody decided it should be pin 7. The plug on pins where a industry standard format by Scantronic and other panel manufactures adopted the same foot print which in them days the pins were not programmable so a move from 5 to 7 was a PITA. 

17 hours ago, Nova-Security said:

 

Everybody says its down to the insurance company's, they don't have that much input on the standards they copy and paste from BSIA guidelines,

 

I know they know feck all, just really making the point that it's ultimatley down to them to say what we have to do, rather than the other way round.