matthew.brough Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 You aren't wrong. Remember the days a pir cost as much as the rest of the gear put together? www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Not quite, but I've taken out a few Racals the size of 14" TVs that you can see must have cost a few £££s to put together! So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerozero Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 All understood. Time to review plans and budgets. No doubt I will save quite a bit of money doing it DIY, especially to the high standards that I would demand so that is good ammunition if I have to go back to project sponsor (GF) asking for increased budget! Really appreciate your thoughts and advice guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Thing is you mention high standards but half of security is the planning and application, not just the installation. Also, you are presumably going to end up with no monitoring, or 'standalone' monitoring (speech dialler, GSM etc...) that itself is not polled and checked constantly by an external party. So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerozero Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 Yep, I've been planning this for about 2 years on and off and the plan has evolved over time (from being like fort knox to realising the cost and minimal benefit of some of the measures). Just because the alarm system can do it, doesn't mean that it is worth doing (certainly for our priorities). A good example of that is the listen-in RMUs, they sound like a nice idea initially coupled with the speech dialler, but then, is it really going to add much apart from a lot more wiring and testing (and cost).. This is a residential property so mainly the alarm is about deterrence but also about early warning when we are in the house in case someone does find a way in without waking us up. Also I will be adding better fire alarm to aid earlier action (this is more about if we are not in - external alarm more effective with a fire alarm than internal smoke detectors). If we are not in the property, break in is less of a concern. If the neighbours hear and get pictures of the crims then great but otherwise that is what insurance is really for - things are replacable. If the house is on fire and the alarm goes off again neighbours are more likely to determine this before I could if no one is at home, even if I have a speech dialler/text notification - I won't have any way to verify to warrent calling the fire dept - maybe I could put more detectors in... something to consider I guess. So initially my goals are to be sure that if anyone unexpected in the property the alarm makes a loud noise. I am putting door sensors on all external doors and all rooms with accessible windows will have PIR protection to cover the gaps. I will have a house area with part arms of perimeter, normal occupancy and guest occupancy (where guest rooms are not PIR'd overnight but normally they will be) and a seperate area for the garage (as we go out of those doors rarely) with perimeter being the normal part arm. I am also putting in 2 external bells as failure redundency and tamper resilience. For £30 extra this seems a good deal considering this alarm system without an external alarm is pretty much useless. Later I might add external monitoring (probably GSM as the phone line is likely vulnurable) if I think it is worth doing (which I can do easily and at will as I will understand this all myself) and I will also add window sensors to all man-size windows to provide warning if leaving the house and someone has left a window ajar (attracting opportunists for a quick mobile phone swipe). Both of these are nice to haves and don't add significant amount of benefit considering the cost and the typical crime rate in this area. If I do want monitored then I would want police connected. And from what I understand most companies will take on DIY installed alarms subject to an initial inspection, so I don't think I am limiting myself here. I may need a few more PIRs so I can get confirmed alarms faster and in higher risk areas and again this is why I am making sure that I'm getting a control box that will be flexible for these possible (or other) future phases. Anything I've missed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 [...] considering this alarm system without an external alarm is pretty much useless. If I do want monitored then I would want police connected. And from what I understand most companies will take on DIY installed alarms subject to an initial inspection, I don't know about others on here but I would be very wary taking on anything I knew was once DIY, there are exceptions of course. Police connected - there is no such thing. You would need an URN and I would not contemplate applying on a DIY myself. It is absolutely no guarantee of police attendance either - you were half right about neighbours (as keyholders to a monitored system - not relying on them hearing the alarm and grabbing their instamatics) being your best bet. Either way it would unconditionally be the end of any DIY access to the programming. I think its the view of some on here that an external alarm is pretty much useless these days, except as an internal sounder as you say to wake you after a night time intrusion. So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matthew.brough Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Putting 2 bells or 200 bells isn't going to make any difference. People ignore them or phone the council to complain they are making a racket. As for a police system you would need a URN and that would involve a company taking it over. I'm not sure any proper alarm companies would be excited and that knowing it was a diy install. Getting a police response is not easy, especially on a res and if you are wanting a police response this needs to be taken into the design consideration now as things that seem quite insignificant such as keypads on the inside of the building or having zones programmed as entry exit or walk through have a significant effect on a police response system. The other issue is you need 2 detectors (any it isn't just any 2 detectors) to activate in a certain time window to get the police out. It isn't as straight forward as you might think but if that is the route you want to go down this needs thinking about before laying a cable. www.securitywarehouse.co.uk/catalog/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 The other issue is you need 2 detectors (any it isn't just any 2 detectors) to activate in a certain time window to get the police out. It isn't as straight forward as you might think but if that is the route you want to go down this needs thinking about before laying a cable. Absolutely, when I said about planning I meant this ^^^^ rather than which brand and how much to spend etc... Placing of items is crucial and not particularly obvious to the uninitiated, and it certainly won't be mentioned in any equipment manuals - at least not in the way it needs to be re: URNs and ACPO etc... Make no mistake getting an URN will mean passing over responsibility and programming access to others. You will struggle to capture their attention if it's an existing DIY installation. There are exceptions of course, but it does make a mountain to climb. So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergibbons Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 The differences I notice when looking at DIY vs professionally installed systems is that DIY systems either have too few detectors (i.e. the two PIRs and single door contact that came with the alarm bundle) or way too many, normally due to poor siting. There's also neatness. It takes experience to install things neatly. I think the menus on the Texecom are fine. The buttons are intuitive, which is a step further than a lot of panels. Beyond this though, Wintex is really easy to use to program the panel. Just yesterday, co-incidentally, I wrote up my feelings on the few wireless alarm systems I have looked at: http://cybergibbons.com/alarms-2/wireless-alarm-recommendations/ Be interested if anyone thought there were any inaccuracies or problems with it. I have a blog, some of which is about alarm security and reverse engineering:http://cybergibbons.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Cybergibbons - you're alive! Now, that might all be QFA for those in the trade but shows what an insight you've gained... So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.