zimmerphrame Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 HI, just wondering if anyone can help, I have a job where c19 goes off into tamper, then c18 & c17 go into twin device fault, (though not always both go into twin device fail)... I've changed biscuits, but still get the same problem, c19 has a capacitor fitted across yellow/blue cores, and there is an id filter fitted in the panel. C19 readings fluctuate between 12mA to 17mA and sometimes down to 00mA (through diagnostics option on panel). I plan on changing biscuits either side of these circuits (say c16 & c20) on my return visit tomorrow, and perhaps dissing c19 completely (suggested by customer). unfortunately i do not have an id test meter, our normal guy who knows id is on holiday at the moment . Its a factory which runs 24hrs a day during the week... Continuity on screening is ok, i spent hours 8 months ago checking and connecting it all up properly for a different fault which was resolved in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 HI, just wondering if anyone can help, I have a job where c19 goes off into tamper, then c18 & c17 go into twin device fault, (though not always both go into twin device fail)... I've changed biscuits, but still get the same problem, c19 has a capacitor fitted across yellow/blue cores, and there is an id filter fitted in the panel. C19 readings fluctuate between 12mA to 17mA and sometimes down to 00mA (through diagnostics option on panel). I plan on changing biscuits either side of these circuits (say c16 & c20) on my return visit tomorrow, and perhaps dissing c19 completely (suggested by customer). unfortunately i do not have an id test meter, our normal guy who knows id is on holiday at the moment . Its a factory which runs 24hrs a day during the week... Continuity on screening is ok, i spent hours 8 months ago checking and connecting it all up properly for a different fault which was resolved in the end. There are a few questions to ask firstly are all the mentioned circuits on the same cable? How long is the distance between the panel and the furthest device? How many circuits in total? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 if you have a cap on the blue yellow that should really only be on the end of the line. Do you have caps elsewhere as too much capacitance will cause you issues. Castle if i recall changed their guidance on cap size and location. Also (not sure if you have) dont mix biscuits. You dont need an id meter for most things but you may want to check the voltages at the biscuits on slow scan. If needed you can then push up the mid Voltage (the 6.5v one) a little higher. When you say iD filter do you mean a Murata Choke? also how long is the white leg on these devices. My initial reaction is to say 19 is missing its address pulse and pulling current at the wrong time. This is usually 1 of three things (infact 4) 1. duff biscuit (you seem to have covered this) 2. White leg too long (very very sensitive to i/f on the white leg) 3. rf near the biscuit. (use foil to screen the biscuit and drop the foil to screen on 0v (not both) 4. too much capacitance on the cabling (or too many caps added) 5. to much vd on the cable. Why did you fit the choke? Sometimes you can cause more harm then good. If the choke isnt helping id take it off. James securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zimmerphrame Posted June 1, 2010 Author Share Posted June 1, 2010 There are a few questions to ask firstly are all the mentioned circuits on the same cable? How long is the distance between the panel and the furthest device? How many circuits in total? well...about 20 circuits, the circuits mentioned are on the same cable and the length of cable to the first device is about20 metres away, then one device is about 20 metres north of that and the other 20 metres west... the device north of the first device has a device and mrc 20 metres east of that but no issues so far.. also circuit numbers are now changed(just can't get the white biscuits anymore!!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 well...about 20 circuits, the circuits mentioned are on the same cable and the length of cable to the first device is about20 metres away, then one device is about 20 metres north of that and the other 20 metres west... the device north of the first device has a device and mrc 20 metres east of that but no issues so far.. also circuit numbers are now changed(just can't get the white biscuits anymore!!). if your moving from old biscuits (either with the S or without before the number) i think you have to push up the mid voltage for iD plus. I know they have different (slightly) working voltages. Its been years since i really knew iD and we dropped it. securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 not worked iD with castle, but loads on ADE Ulitimate, Karizma and Gardtec panels. what you describe could be a result of an inermittent short, like a machine cable staple or stray strand, only way to trace is look at every inch and clip. next, lightning or serious static strike. don't always kill all the biscuits lanly, but often knocks one or more 'scatty' and they false report when polled. if what is suggested above and by others who know castke kit don't fix it , i suggest replace all the biscuits and/or split onto 2 interfaces (if that's feasible on Castle) to halve and aid the testing, and so tracing. Arfur If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Oxo Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 I assume you have run a slow scan to check voltages. You should get Low 2.85 Mid 6.5 High 11.0. Tampers will almost always be Blue and white crossed, bleeding over. I also agree with James on his list. Try looking at as you say 16 and 20. Also check for a short to earth. I spent a whole day at castle just learning to fault find ID. Some confidence ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 you will get a biscuit go twin device if the blue leg becomes disconnected from the line but the white is connected to blue line securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Oxo Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 Also a detector tripping but going into tamper would be the yellow instead of the blue line. Or if another detector goes into tamper after another is activated it could be excessive resistance on the cable. Quite possible on a older install. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted June 1, 2010 Share Posted June 1, 2010 i was once told that the best way to fix id issues on a castle panel is to pull it out and put something else in. securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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