Fixer Posted October 4, 2007 Author Share Posted October 4, 2007 What you moaning about fixer ? Don I fly gassed up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kka Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 cowboy? Kevin Scott. Owner of KK Alarms...... Installation .. Service .. Repair ...... Thoughout.. Northumberland and North Tyneside ..... Tel:01670 361948 (call diverted after 15 seconds) or 07947444114 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixer Posted October 4, 2007 Author Share Posted October 4, 2007 tommy rot................... ring up the manufacturer of your car & ask for all the book's the main agent has Just to explain were that comment came from, after reading an article and don I fly gassed up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Thanks for your input but I do think most people that set out to install there own DIY alarm will be able to follow the basic wiring instructions and will only come unstuck when it comes to the lack of programming instructions these systems come with like in my case and will only face disappointment when they find this site. hi Fixer, a very common misconception voiced, this is going to sound patronising but genuinely not meant to be. there are many actions involved installing an alarm system, while not claiming we perform any black art's the skills we obtain and use go to ensure a reliable system with neat and tidy appearance. just the simple task of joining 2 wires together i could easily spend an hour teaching you the right an all wrong ways and why it is so, and as i always do when i take on a trainee or new experienced engineer. it's one of the most important basic actions but enough care is often not taken, either to laziness or simply not knowing. locating detectors in the best position to give coverage and avoiding (what is to us) common false alarm causes, and programming is down to fine tuning and like a car the guy with the qualifications and proper kit will do a better job than you. i don't say everyone who installs their own system makes a complete mess of it, some i have had to take my hat off to, but it is the case more often than not, then it plays up then who do you turn to? is it the kit? the connections, is it the operation or is it the design? an example you will be aware of is car alarms, your neighbour slips into Halfords spends If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixer Posted October 4, 2007 Author Share Posted October 4, 2007 cowboy? Why are you hiding? I fly gassed up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixer Posted October 4, 2007 Author Share Posted October 4, 2007 hi Fixer,a very common misconception voiced, this is going to sound patronising but genuinely not meant to be. there are many actions involved installing an alarm system, while not claiming we perform any black art's the skills we obtain and use go to ensure a reliable system with neat and tidy appearance. just the simple task of joining 2 wires together i could easily spend an hour teaching you the right an all wrong ways and why it is so, and as i always do when i take on a trainee or new experienced engineer. it's one of the most important basic actions but enough care is often not taken, either to laziness or simply not knowing. locating detectors in the best position to give coverage and avoiding (what is to us) common false alarm causes, and programming is down to fine tuning and like a car the guy with the qualifications and proper kit will do a better job than you. i don't say everyone who installs their own system makes a complete mess of it, some i have had to take my hat off to, but it is the case more often than not, then it plays up then who do you turn to? is it the kit? the connections, is it the operation or is it the design? an example you will be aware of is car alarms, your neighbour slips into Halfords spends I fly gassed up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Just to explain were that comment came from, after reading an article and don If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 Thanks AlanI am one of the old boys that will listen all day if I learn something. If you can find that trades man that will do all the things you mention I agree with all you say 100% but the problem today is finding them. For instance I've just had the house re plastered and after talking to loads of guys in the trade along the way I picked a guy that came well recommended, when it was finished and painted we turned the lights on for the first time and it looks like the English channel on are walls, when confronted he said that If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixer Posted October 4, 2007 Author Share Posted October 4, 2007 Hi Fixer,all rules are there for interpretation and testing, the practicalities are often different from what is thought would happen. A. there has been cases where this facility has been abused, but it is usually cose lockouts are in place to ensure justified payment is received, the engineer code prevents tampering by un-trained persons, also protects you from the get out of "we left it fully working and you must have deleted that zone on the vault" defenses, so you can see not as muky as you might have thought. B. would be assuming you (or agent) have the knowledge to make it operate to it's full capacity or better than it did when programmed by the engineer, that could go eventually to court and you would then need and be able to prove it beyond any reasonable doubt = lawyers feast. on your basis where will your rights end? many panels have software for remote access, don't come with the panel as default. so you buy an all singing all dancing panel but will that give you the right to buy the software? i doubt it as much as i doubt a car maker will sell you the program to alter the tunning on your car. regs alan I think you should have access to the software and why not if you bought the panel, after all you buy a PC and the bios updates are downloadable free even if the owner stuffs it up doing so he should still have the option. I agree on both a & b but it should only apply if your on contract or guaranteed period The car diagnostic software is obtainable if you can afford it. I fly gassed up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amateurandy Posted October 4, 2007 Share Posted October 4, 2007 I think you should have access to the software and why not if you bought the panel, after all you buy a PC and the bios updates are downloadable free even if the owner stuffs it up doing so he should still have the option.I agree on both a & b but it should only apply if your on contract or guaranteed period The car diagnostic software is obtainable if you can afford it. Hi Fixer and welcome, I work in IT and to be honest the parallel to PC's has so many differences that it's not really a good basis to on. What is significant, and I've said so many times before, is that IT security is generally "open" and uses methods that are public but difficult to defeat, whereas alarms still depend on "security by obscurity" which in the long run will have to change. Car software (and manuals) is only available because of some interesting legal cases in the USA that set a precedent. Of course now EC law allows non-tied garages to work on cars and not invalidate warranties (provided they do it properly!) so the information has to be available more widely. But it's still usually copyright and can be charged for. I think the alarm industry will have to change it's attitude to secrecy of methods, but currently it's where it is! As for what you were asking about earlier, what information can/can't be given here, I think different members interpret the rules their own ways. Many are quite strict, giving out no programming information and telling you so in no uncertain terms. As one of the oft-repeated moderators comments (regularly ignored) says "If you can't help don't post". Others are happy to point you in the right direction and give some big hints (or more) - assuming you do have the manuals and can read them. Personally I think that approach is within both the letter and spirit of the forum and I applaud those members that take the time and trouble to do so. Finally, there are a lot of professional alarm engineers here who do know their stuff and offer good advice for free! Sometimes they do it a bit abruptly, but it's still valid. Stick with it and you'll find it useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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