Guest gsijim Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 Dave, you have me confused! Obviously you know what you are talking about, but I am looking at the manual and I have followed what it says, are you suggesting the manual is incorrect? The bell box is a Flashguard XL Plus. In the manual that came with it there is a section called "typical terminal connections for control panels" It lists all the different manufacturers. It groups the following panels together for Scantronic 9448 9452 9454 9600 9800 and against all of them it states Tamper Out is OV and Supply Neg is TR. If the manual is incorrect, what effect would this reverse wiring do? Also I am missing the point by Gazzerdaman. By backup battery I am referring to the battery in the bellbox and not the standby battery in control panel. Therefore the backup battery is connected to the bellbox i.e., it is integral, therefore I have to go up ladder to disconnect?? Obviously I am missing something very simple here!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Service Engineer Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 The way youve wired the bellbox wont have any adverse effects on the way it works, but I see the manual as being wrong. The way the manual suggests you wire it would mean the bellbox would still sound even if you removed the lid while in engineers mode. TR stands for Tamper Return this means the 0 volts (hold-) is returned to the control panel AFTER passing through the bellbox tamper springs or switches. The way your manual instructs you to wire it would mean the bellbox HOLD- would be passing through the springs or switches first thus removing the hold- whenever the bellbox lid is removed. While this isnt a bad thing its annoying if your an engineer. I like to be able to put the panel in engineer mode and know i can check out the bellbox without it blaring away at me when i remove the lid. Gazzerdaman`s suggestion was to simply feed the bellbox directly from the backup battery to save you having to get up the ladders, all you need to do is remove the wiring from the panel, and connect supply+ to the positive terminal off the battery and the supply- to the negative terminal off the battery. This will make the bellbox still appear active if it has a flashing light and keep it silent while disconnected from your control panel. ........................................................ Dave Partridge (Romec Service Engineer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Adrian Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 B) Hi there What dave says is correct and so r you I have looked at a set of instructions for that bell box Their wording for the different terminals is slightly different to most. The extra cable I got confused with would have been the strobe + most modern bell boxs today do not require you to put a separate 12+ to the strobe as its built into the bell cct board. I would would conect up the bell to the panel battery as well,The down side is if your panel battery runs flat during the week you test the panel it will start going of outside. Everything you have been told up to now is sound advice so go for it and let us all know how you get on. Adrian B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gsijim Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 Thanks for that Adrian. As my house is 3 storeys and I have placed bellbox under eaves, then the ladder job will have to wait for weekend. Will disconnect all and set panel. Will obviously let you know eventual outcome. Thanks to everybody for the advice so far!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gsijim Posted June 22, 2003 Share Posted June 22, 2003 Hi Adrian, Dave, Gazzerdaman!!! Went up my ladder, took cover off and of course the tamper spring set the alarm. I had someone down at control panel to put code in but this only silenced internal sounder and not external bell, is this because tamper circuit remained open? Anyway disconnecting the wire sorted that. The other thing that surprised me at this stage was that although the siren was very loud I don't think it was as loud as when I first put it in. Is this because the alarm had been going off for hours a few weeks ago? I thought the batteries were kept fully charged. Anyway, I decided to add an extra step to what we agreed I should do. Originally we said to reset by shorting the pins, disconnect everything hanging on the back of it and set alarm and see if it went off over a period of time. If it hadn't gone off it would have meant one of two things, either that the chip had been corrupt and was now ok or there wasn't anything wrong with the panel and it was something else. But I wouldn't know and I would wire everything back up not knowing if it would still be troublesome. What better I thought than NOT to short the pins and then disconnect everything and set the alarm. If it did go off and then I shorted the pins and left everything disconnected and reset it again and it didn't go off, then I would know for certain that it was a corrupt chip and at least my mind would be at rest!! I guess I can take a longer route to sort this problem as I live here, not like you engineers going in on a job. A few problems seem to have set in. I have disconnected all wires apart from internal sounder and put wire links into A/T,all zones and OV/TR from bell box but no links into12V/AUX or the other 4 wires I have disconnected from bell box. I have 3 problems. The first is that 24 hr light wont reset? The second is that I can't actually set the alarm i.e., the system unset light stays on and doesn't go out. I thought perhaps it wasn't recognising my user code but it accepts it for other commands. The 3rd problem is that the internal sounder is getting quieter and quieter and has virtually disappeared, mains power is on, battery fuse is ok. It was working at full capacity before I set about this but seems to have run down gradually over about an hour. Despite all this I am actually enjoying myself but slightly frustrated. Any ideas?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Adrian Posted June 22, 2003 Share Posted June 22, 2003 Glad you are still happy!! 2 things with the bell box 1stly was the battery conected and secondly check and see if the bell box is set up as SAB or SCB (Put it on SAB) If its no better after that it could could be your hearing or a faulty bell box From what you tell us every thing is set up ok. Is the battery ok? If memory serves me right you need to have a working battery conected to the alarm befor it will let you set the alarm. I realy feal if you want any chance of getting this to work you need to reset the NVM a lot of times this is all that is needed to make everything ok. The main softwear chip may have been corupted by a minor spike possible from the mains. God luck keep smiling Adrian B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Engineer Posted June 30, 2003 Share Posted June 30, 2003 Whats happened to gsijim? I was getting into the story that was beginning to unfold. Has the frustration tipped him over the edge?? Or has he finally realised that he needs to get someone in to sort it for him? Service Engineer My opinions may not reflect those of my employer, managers, colleagues, customers, friends, family or pet rabbit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gsijim Posted July 3, 2003 Share Posted July 3, 2003 Warwick, you have upset me :reallymad: !!! I don't give up without a fight, so here is the next instalment. Eventually got the battery going, 12v aux fuse had blown (this is 2 fuses blown now in its short live, is this indicative of anything?). Set the panel with nothing hanging off it and left it for 5 days and it didn't go off. Connected up just the exit door magnetic contact and have had the alarm set for 4 days and hey presto it has just gone off for no reason atall i.e., door was securely shut. For those of you that remember the storey it was pointing to the exit door as the chime would keep going for no reason atall. Before you all ask and nag me, no I haven't reset the pins, as I explained I wanted to find out what was setting the alarm off before resetting panel and maybe never satisfying my curiosity. Anyone want to offer any advise at this stage? I am surprised it has taken 4 days for alarm to go off because when everything was connected , the chime was going off sometimes every few mins and sometimes just a few times a day. I expected the alarm to go off within the first day not take 4!! That has thrown me as it gives no consistency. Right I know that I have to reset pins, but your opinions on what you think the problem is , given that all components are brand new. Is it a dodgy magnetic contact or a dodgy panel or a corrupt chip? Guess we will never know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Adrian Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 :?: More thoughts for you can you check the resistance on the cable going to the front door from the panel end with the dooor contact closed Check both the pair for the switch and the tamper pair. Is it possible that you have a slightly damaged cable? IE a staple though the cable a crushed cable by a door gripper, A carpet nail ect... or even a minor crack on the glass of the dooor contact. OR A FAULTY PANEL!!!! But my thinking is now towards the cabling and or conections. Any other thoughts anyone? Adrian B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest andy jinks Posted July 4, 2003 Share Posted July 4, 2003 from what you have said the panel seems ok. as an engineer we dont always have a chance to put a panel on test for 5 days to check a hunch,the customer expects us to fix it there and then,but as you can see somtimes its a process of elimination that takes time to complete . asuming that you are using a anti tamper on the door contact from what i have read you havent said you have had any probs with the tampers going off,so from that it seems that at least the anti tamper pair is ok so we can use them to check if its a cable or contact prob. what you cuold do is remove the anti tamper and use the pair to bring back the switching of the door contact back to the panel . dont worry about the anti tamp from the door contact at this stage. if useing the old anti tamper pair to bring the door switch back works ok then it must be a cable fault on the other pair. if you still get probs the it must be a door contact prob. let us know if it works Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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