Guest Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 I am in probably the safest area of the UK. It may be different in other areas. don't worry - i have felt completely safe anywhere there regardless the amount of imperial pints.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 arfur an insurance company will still stipulate that zone shouldnty be iomiitedand the zone omit that we signal is not what you think its for its actually called 'zone omit on rearm' and is designed to inform the client that the system has had to isolate a zone on rearm as it is in alarm. hi james, you can program an output to give indication of a 'zone omited' being used as you can with tamper, part set and most other actions as the need require's regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted January 3, 2007 Share Posted January 3, 2007 so what would you do with the info, call a keyholder? yes you can but i still think all panels that are police repsonse should not be able to omit zones. Just my opinion and im sure not your arfur securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 arfur an insurance company will still stipulate that zone shouldnty be iomiitedand the zone omit that we signal is not what you think its for its actually called 'zone omit on rearm' and is designed to inform the client that the system has had to isolate a zone on rearm as it is in alarm. hi James, my experience is insurrance companies will normally take advice from the installer if challenged (and you know my powers of challenge), especially as it is done the way i laid it out. the scenario in this o/p proves your blanket ethos would have been of no use to him, you have to think as always when this happens it's always at an inconvenient time, perhaps the owner had a drink or is away even abroad, so could not attend in person, so forced out of concern for the staff to leave the system turned off, a far greater 'evil' than omitting a zone. agreed it is a deliberate action but recorded in the alarm log which you can print-out as evidence if needed. imo some albeit appreciated lower degree of protection, is far better than offering none at all, but obviously qualified on a case by case regarding the perceived risk. some time back working for an Alarm Co (i'm sorry i'm so old) a tobaconist i got called out to had been broken into, the owner attended and waited for me to get their, while he waited the guy (or another one) came back and knicked the stock and cash box from a 1st floor stock room. had the owner been able to partially set his system and returned to his flat which was above the shop while he waiting the 3 hours for me to get there, then the stockroom PIR would have detected the second intrussion, so i'll keep to my reasonning regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Arf not wanting or willing to drag myself into one of your debates i still think my position is correct. Now if there is a problem they should call out an engineer and not 'guess' at removing a sensor being ok. Plus it is so open to abuse bythe staff to omit circuits and then hit the place (surly in your vast experience you have seen this done a few times) I agree with you on audibles yes the client should be able to omit their own circuits but not on response. The insurace might not pay out if you do. But i am 100% you think you are correct on this and thats fine and how on engineer rest would he have been able to rearm this system? securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Arf not wanting or willing to drag myself into one of your debates i still think my position is correct. Now if there is a problem they should call out an engineer and not 'guess' at removing a sensor being ok. Plus it is so open to abuse by the staff to omit circuits and then hit the place (surly in your vast experience you have seen this done a few times)I agree with you on audibles yes the client should be able to omit their own circuits but not on response. The insurace might not pay out if you do. But i am 100% you think you are correct on this and thats fine and how on engineer rest would he have been able to rearm this system? hi James, i think its a good discussion of different attitudes more than right or wronge, as both imo have merits. i ere on the side of being practicle and the facility for ommiting a zone on modern panels is restricted to upper levels (well on Gardtec at least) so lesser user's will not have this ability to abuse it, if needed for temporary reasons then a manager code can be given to the staff member and changed the next day. like i say the 'omit' is recorded in the alarm log along with the 'user' who did it if the codes have been correctly administrated, R&M log read (i'm sure you do this) will reveal abusive use. this was a 'C.N.S' so not in engineer reset mode and this particular system is not remotely monitored - if i read it correctly and using strands of my vast experience no engineer reset required i think unless very recent EU software fitted . regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 don't worry - i have felt completely safe anywhere there regardless the amount of imperial pints.. i'd wear rubber gloves georgahti to handle you 'mints' as you can get some nasty infections from them regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anusoflannigan Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Would an insurance company go as far as checking the various zone attributes in programming, with engineer on site to show/ navigate the menu's? Does the insurance co have any power to make said engineer reveal how a system is programmed?.. curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Would an insurance company go as far as checking the various zone attributes in programming, log print would give the game away........ depending what your controls are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted January 4, 2007 Share Posted January 4, 2007 Would an insurance company go as far as checking the various zone attributes in programming, with engineer on site to show/ navigate the menu's? Does the insurance co have any power to make said engineer reveal how a system is programmed?.. curious Yep and often its the first thing they ask for is prrof of service and why the alarm didnt activate. Me being biased if the customer has failed to set it then thats what gets reported. I get offered lots of 'bonus's' to alter this report and obviously flatly refuse. The favorite one is 'cant you just say it was under contract'? securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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