16 replies to this topic

[Lainey]

I have TalkTalk broadband and telephone and a new ADT alarm system. ADT cannot get the alarm to work with TalkTalk. According to TalkTalk engineers there has always been a compatibility issue between their service (previously OneTel) and ADT. I have been told that it will simply never work. But when I search internet chat rooms, there do seem to be people out there with both TalkTalk and ADT working on the same line. We have checked filters, router, and BT line - everything looks good from, yet it still will not work.

[IPAlarms]

It's not just ADT and it's not just TalkTalk. It's anywhere that a phone company moves any portion of an alarm call over an IP network. This introduces all sorts of problems for alarm systems... http://www.voipalarm...monitoring.html and results in failure of signals to reach the monitoring company.

You will hear people say "my alarm works fine" and "usually" it will do if the network is not busy. If your alarm is activated during a busy period, then things may work out differently.

[MrHappy]

IPAlarms, on 02 March 2011 - 03:55 PM, said:

You will hear people say "my alarm works fine" and "usually" it will do if the network is not busy. If your alarm is activated during a busy period, then things may work out differently.

Speaking as a company,never had any issues with signals being lost on digi's.

I suspect this must be carried over IP somewhere as of the distance involved.

[IPAlarms]

MrHappy, on 02 March 2011 - 04:06 PM, said:

Speaking as a company,never had any issues with signals being lost on digi's.

I suspect this must be carried over IP somewhere as of the distance involved.

In any 24 hour period - how much time do your digis spend "online" ?

On domestic systems, you will likely not use open/close, so you'd be lucky if they send more than one or two signals a year. What I am trying to get across to you is that the line is not supervised, so you have no idea whether it is working or not.

As an example, if one of your domestic customers (no o/c) lines were not working correctly for the whole of January, February and March and their alarm successfully signalled an event on the first of April, you and your customer would agree that his system has been working fine for the last 3 months.

This is why there is a misconception that PSTN lines are so reliable..... because they are not supervised and nobody gets to know when they are faulty. Today, things are even worse because a PSTN line is no longer a PSTN line. It is part PSTN, part IP, part who knows what. Are you going to believe what the telephone company tell you? - I think not

[MrHappy]

IPAlarms, on 02 March 2011 - 04:21 PM, said:

In any 24 hour period - how much time do your digis spend "online" ?

less than a minute a site

IPAlarms, on 02 March 2011 - 04:21 PM, said:

On domestic systems, you will likely not use open/close, so you'd be lucky if they send more than one or two signals a year. What I am trying to get across to you is that the line is not supervised, so you have no idea whether it is working or not.

As an example, if one of your domestic customers (no o/c) lines were not working correctly for the whole of January, February and March and their alarm successfully signalled an event on the first of April, you and your customer would agree that his system has been working fine for the last 3 months.

the modern way is : - sends a 24hr test unless they request it off, FTC is logged locally & I get an email for all my sites which show those not signalled within a time frame

IPAlarms, on 02 March 2011 - 04:21 PM, said:

This is why there is a misconception that PSTN lines are so reliable..... because they are not supervised and nobody gets to know when they are faulty. Today, things are even worse because a PSTN line is no longer a PSTN line. It is part PSTN, part IP, part who knows what. Are you going to believe what the telephone company tell you? - I think not

I've never know a digi (on an exclusive line) fail to operate, unless line cut but if others have meddled since the last service visit eg: - adsl, funny dial tones to bar numbers or routed though a pbx or prima cell box

[TheTechGuy]

There can be many reasons why this is happening.

Fortunately it is often a simple case of checking each potential variable until the issue is discovered - Basic tests such as the engineer using a book phone or such to test connectivity to the receiver numbers is one of the first points of call once voltage is established on the line, followed by checks on the formatting of messages sent and the configuration of the alarm panel alarm reporting settings.

It is difficult for me to provide accurate guidance as the comms are down to ADT but I would ask what specific checks have been performed other than just 'Erm.... it isn't working - call your line provider it is their problem'

As for IP solutions - yes they can resolve some of the issues faced with un-monitored PSTN lines as well as deliver a whole plethora of additional benefits. However, I would gracefully ask you to read back your posts Steve as they are coming across as scaremongering which is I am sure not the kind of tactic IPAlarms would use as I suspect your ethos and morals are of a higher order than that.

Good luck and keep us updated - Welcome to TSI

'J

[itesecurity]

Had problems with one paticular panel that we no longer install (not mentioning which) that would not communicate over bundled talktalk lines here in N.Ireland. Never got to the bottom of it. Panel would work fine on BT line but on talktalk would not communicate around 90% of the time.

We had talktalk involved and also the panel manufacturer and a solution was never found. Ended up swapping out the panels with different manufacturer and everything was fine. Luckily we only had a few panels to change.

[breff]

The problem isnt usually that the signals do not get to the ARC, it is usually due to a delay being introduced by the AD-DA conversion which causes the digi to hang up and dial again for its programmed number of dial attempts, the ARC then receives duplicate signals and the houseowner receives a big phone bill

[hpotter]

breff, on 02 March 2011 - 07:13 PM, said:

The problem isnt usually that the signals do not get to the ARC, it is usually due to a delay being introduced by the AD-DA conversion which causes the digi to hang up and dial again for its programmed number of dial attempts, the ARC then receives duplicate signals and the houseowner receives a big phone bill

agreed.

itesecurity, on 02 March 2011 - 05:52 PM, said:

Ended up swapping out the panels with different manufacturer and everything was fine.

ack delay is useful not all panels have it. even then not all engineers prog it.

[norman]

...and some have no idea what it is for!!

[jameswilson]

We have systems running on talktalk fine. However you cant use the old style dtmf digi mode. Your system should (if relativly modern) be caperble of 'extended formats' We use SIA 3 and found this to solve 'most' but not all issues. As noted above its because talk talk have their own 21CN IP core and its designed for voice, not old style alarm communicators

[jimcarter]

I guess some of you may have found this before, but some modems have "training" issues with Carrier Pre Selection. That is if an "old" BT line is being re-routed via another provider latency is added into the call (that's a little bit of delay in non-comms speak).

So....the modem at the protected premises attempts to make a call, but latency means that it does not properly connect with the modem at the receiving end and the call fails.

One way is to force the modem to use BT (prefix with 1280), however I do believe I read that on certain exchanges this is no longer availble..someone may be able to confirm?

I agree that all PSTN circuits are actually digitised at the exchange and are then routed via the fibre backbone which in the UK is mainly ATM, but migrating to IP. However this should not be the cause of the problem. With regards to the reliability, well all communications of voice and data are routed over the same core network, so the reliability of all mediums are the same. Individual locations may suffer as a result of distance from the exchange, the quality of the copper/infrastructure of the last mile etc. but the core network is very, very reliable for all traffic (PSTN/ADSL/ISDN etc).

[IPAlarms]

TheTechGuy, on 02 March 2011 - 05:39 PM, said:

However, I would gracefully ask you to read back your posts Steve as they are coming across as scaremongering

Just passing on my knowledge of what is now the biggest single problem in North America and has been for some time. They are a few years ahead of the UK as far as VoIP is concerned, so take it or leave it.

[kwc]

As Jim Above,
One way is to force the modem to use BT (prefix with 1280).
When i worked for ADT this was the way to solve this problem.
May have changed now but we prefix the 2nd number on the any digi just to help.

[sixwheeledbeast]

kwc, on 03 March 2011 - 08:36 PM, said:

As Jim Above,
One way is to force the modem to use BT (prefix with 1280).
When i worked for ADT this was the way to solve this problem.
May have changed now but we prefix the 2nd number on the any digi just to help.

BT have change there policies on the 1280 prefix see here:-

http://btsupport.cus...ers/list/c/1895

Quote

On the new service, a call pre-fixed with 1280 will connect in the normal way, but it will NOT be chargeable to a BT bill. It will actually be charged by your own Call Provider (and this could be at a higher rate). It will also NOT count towards the necessary calls quota to receive either BT Caller Display or BT Answer 1571 at no extra cost.

[jameswilson]

IPAlarms, on 03 March 2011 - 02:32 AM, said:

Just passing on my knowledge of what is now the biggest single problem in North America and has been for some time. They are a few years ahead of the UK as far as VoIP is concerned, so take it or leave it.

Steve id agree with techguy, your posts do read wrong sometimes, especially the end of the above

[Michael Boty]

More information on signalling needed to resolve. Digicom - levels ? call getting through, acknolegment being recieved but not clearing digicom.
I.P. ???