All Forum users should take note ofthe above Discussion.

And Dale did you ever find how we stood legally..?

Can find the legal stuff out for you Wed, as im installing structured cabling into a solicitors, so will quickly ask one of em.

Well legally here goes:

Manuals are not public domain and are legally copyrighted by the respective parties (ie the manufacturers). This copyright lasts for 100 year from the date the first pulication was made (so it pretty much covers the entire lifecycle of any alarm system).

If we send alarm manuals to people or hold alarm manuals on a computer system this is breach of copyright as we are not allowed to reproduce in any way (including digital scanning) any of the manuls, unless we have the prior permission of the copyright holder.

Unfortunately just because a manufacturer puts the manual on there website this does not mean we can take the manual and distribute it without there permission, even though it would appear to be public domain, it isnt.

As for the advice/recomendations, if the advice is free then we are unlikely to get prosecuted. But we must have a disclaimer on the site, as if we get it wrong and we are telling people we are "proffesionals" then we may get into trouble.

My friend will take a look at the site later this afternoon to see if he can find any other legal issues we should be considering.

Dale

BUMP.........Just thought I`d top this topic to make it easier for new members to find.

My opinion is. If its a maintained system then do not give the user a engineers manual as they could cause problems for the maintenance company. but if its not maintained, its just installed then give them a copy as its there system and if they create probelms its there own fault, and will have to pay for it to be repaired.

I cant see any reason at all why an end user should know engineer manuals exist or expect to have one. It all comes down to quality of service.

If an alteration needs to be done to the program this should be done by someone with training and experience, the details noted on a call form and then signed by both.

If you give a user an engineers manual it seems to me you are telling the customer to look after it themselves and not bother you.

I am an electrician by trade and have just finished building my home. I bought and installed an aritech system. Installation was not a problem and neither was the initial set up. However i recieved no manual and as such am limited in what i can do ( ie inhibit a zone ). I think as long as the end user is not on a maintenance and monitoring contract they should be left the manuals. Qualified persons and i would consider myself such, should get all the info they need when they purchase a system. Most of the info for mine was removed from the box. I just had the bare bones to go with.

The Aritech range of panels i would say is one of the more complex and professional range of panels and you tend to find you dont get the engineer manuals with them. There will be a few good reasons for that, the main one being the manual maybe around 40+ pages thick and to provide one with every panel would'nt be cost effective.

Also the manuals will be issued to security companies by the manufactures as they need them, and they will most likely pay for them. No doubt if you contacted Aritech they would let you have one and probably charge you for the pleasure also. I would agree that you are a competent person but most people aint and you would'nt suggest any of your clients open up the sockets or consumer unit and try changing things.

Any more views on this Subject, seems the result of the poll has changed somewhat..

Engineer-----Provide them if Asked [ 22 ] [39.29%]

Engineer-----Do not provide them at all [ 15 ] [26.79%]

User----------Im happy to leave the serious stuff to the pro`s [ 2 ] [3.57%]

User----------Its my Alarm, I have the right to a manual [ 15 ] [26.79%]

Un-decided -[ 2 ] [3.57%]

Those in favour now equals almost 70%....?

I feel that if someone felt compotent enough to carry out the small change and new the potential risks involved then it would be okay for them to receive the manual.

Some distributors even offer them on their websites.

Dave

It all depends on whether their Are there any manufacturers that wont try to sue me if i offer this service.