C.S TEK. Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 No offence and please do not take this personnaly. obviously you yourself have no experience or knowledge of alarm systems your brother in law may be an electrician but an alarm system is a totaly different kettle of fish to electrics like you said he has never fitted an alarm system before, my best advice to you would be to get it fitted proffesionaly i know this may not fit your budget but its the best way. Glen 39683[/snapback] Running cables has the same principle no matter low voltage or mains. Im sure your brother in law we be able to fit the alarm with no problem. An electrical qualification is a step ahead of a security qualification. And you do cover electronics in your training. Most jobs I've seen from electricians are really neat the only thing that lets them down is the connections(seriesed up!!) and programming. Any donkey can run cables. Its aint rocket science. Just make sure there away from mains and pipes at proper distance and the cables are marked the same at both ends. If your brother inlaws a sparks i'm sure he's got a multimeter to test them and check the resistance. I suggest you get your brother in law to buy a kit (C and K , Texecom or ADE) , get him to run the cables, fit the panel,spur, keypad, contacts and bases of detectors(make sure there not facing pipes or windows) and then ring round for a local alarm company who could come and connect and offer you a maintenance contract on the system. You might go £50 - £100 over budget but at least you no its gonna work at the end of it. Trade Member As Mr Kingswood said "Dont forget the 6 P's when installing.....Proper Preperation Prevents P*** Poor Performance!!!" John Kingswood(alais Nobby), Paul Earl Ltd 1985-2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcelec Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 i dont understand why people on here seem to think that electricians cant wire alarm systems? iam a time served electrician, it took me 4 years to serve my time and then a further 3 years to complete my hnc in electrical engineering, but during my time at //.National Installer.// it took me 2 days on a training course to learn how to install galaxy sytems! so no disrespect to all the intruder lads on here but being an electrician is a step up the electrotechnical ladder from being an intruder engineer, just look at the facts; * it takes longer to train to be an electrician * electricians generally get paid more than intruder engineers * electricians can wire intruder alarms, but alarm engineers could not work on mains installations * electricians are use to installing micc (pyro) and armoured cables (so a decent electrician should have no problem installing some bits of string, ooops i mean alarm cable) i hate having to bring all this up but if certain people are going to start saying silly things like electricans are not capable of installing alarm systems then i think as an electrician its time for me to put things right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcelec Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 hi pete i agree with what you say, and im not trying to show any disrespect to alarm engineers but for people on here say electricians cannot install alarm systems is completely wrong, true that when it comes to commisioning it would be better to use an engineer who works on intruder systems on a daily basis as they will be more familiar with the requirements of bs4737 and so on, and its fair to say that with no prior experiance in intruder then without a bit of guidence on what cables to run where and how to program the panel then an average electrician would get a bit stuck on a system like a galaxy panel but for the type of alarm system the guy at the start of this post is likely to install (say for examle a veritas r8) any decent electrician should be able to install it too a good standard (the instruction manual is dummy proof and even has wiring diagrams) so lets just all agree that a bit of mutual respect is needed here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian.cant Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 so lets just all agree that a bit of mutual respect is needed here! Your dead right with this but wrong with your thoughts on any spark being able to install alarms, as Pete said its the regs where we would all fall down in each others world really. With the proper training then yes any spark could do it and i dare say vice versa. I know i can work Pyro, stwa cable, galv conduit etc but i dont have the bits of paper that you have. My bits of paper refer to marine electrical plant but it doesnt make any difference if you dont know the relevant regs. Anybody can paint a wall but without qualifications as a painter and decorator......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 11, 2005 Share Posted February 11, 2005 i have to agree its the regs that divide our trades nobody is saying sparks should not fit an alarm , its just when it comes to insurance only a sparks (with relevant testing and inspection cert) can say that the installation meets relevent regulations for eg bs 7671 where we cannot where as we can say that an alarm instalation comforms to bs 4731, en 501 31 , dd243, (acpo) and then to our inspectorate standards that keep us with jobs an electrician would not get like banks, bond w/houses, building societies. i think iam rambling on a bit here one of the big things between our trades is the quality of equiptment and knowhow i wouldent expect a sparks to reel our regs off about alarms as you would not expect us to reel yours off and tell you we know the diversity factor insideout ill shut up know because it dosent make sense to me what ive written Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S TEK. Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 Wot devides the sparks between the Security Engineer is One is better at practical the other is better at Technical. When it comes down to a residential bells only install,Idont think theres a lot for the sparks to follow on BS4737 to be honest. This is why he could do just as good a job as most security engineers. When it comes to bigger jobs and monitoring then YES leave it to the proper proffessionals. Just like security engineers fitting a spur. Youde do the odd bit of electrical to get you by , but not the dis board and ring main ect... Trade Member As Mr Kingswood said "Dont forget the 6 P's when installing.....Proper Preperation Prevents P*** Poor Performance!!!" John Kingswood(alais Nobby), Paul Earl Ltd 1985-2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian c Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 Basically, it's a different kettle of fish. In both trades there are various levels of skill, qualifications and workmanship. With such diversity, it is unfair to generalise these qualities within the trades to compare them. How can you compare a timed served electrical engineer, responsible for all the associated requirements of maintaining some power plant or other huge industrial site with an alarm engineer that's been doing the game a while but never touched anything bigger than a premier or touched anything outside intruder? or A competent, qualified security engineer trained and conversant in all aspects of safety and security, with a sparky who only ever rewires houses and has forgotten most of what he was taught to get his qualification? Each to their own and they all have their elite. We can't all be the best at everything. If you don't know......ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S TEK. Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 here here well said brian Trade Member As Mr Kingswood said "Dont forget the 6 P's when installing.....Proper Preperation Prevents P*** Poor Performance!!!" John Kingswood(alais Nobby), Paul Earl Ltd 1985-2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavrick_001 Posted March 6, 2005 Share Posted March 6, 2005 i dont understand why people on here seem to think that electricians cant wire alarm systems? iam a time served electrician, being an electrician is a step up the electrotechnical ladder from being an intruder engineer, * it takes longer to train to be an electrician * electricians generally get paid more than intruder engineers I am a time served spark. I have 3 companies. 1 doing alarms, 1 doing electrical work, 1 doing PAT testing. My alarm company makes the msot money of all 3. As a spark before I went into alarms I had no idea of how to install one. I agree with the lads that MOST SPARKIES CAN FIT ALARMS. Some can all well & good, but I can tell the difference & most of here will back me up, when I walk into a job I know if some cable monkey has fitted it or a proper alarm engineer. I speak from both sides of the fence. Respect as always. Thank-you boys! CCTV Intruder Access Control Tony Hughes, Proprietor, TRADE MEMBER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 6, 2005 Share Posted March 6, 2005 i dont understand why people on here seem to think that electricians cant wire alarm systems? iam a time served electrician, being an electrician is a step up the electrotechnical ladder from being an intruder engineer, * it takes longer to train to be an electrician * electricians generally get paid more than intruder engineers I am a time served spark. I have 3 companies. 1 doing alarms, 1 doing electrical work, 1 doing PAT testing. My alarm company makes the msot money of all 3. As a spark before I went into alarms I had no idea of how to install one. I agree with the lads that MOST SPARKIES CAN FIT ALARMS. Some can all well & good, but I can tell the difference & most of here will back me up, when I walk into a job I know if some cable monkey has fitted it or a proper alarm engineer. I speak from both sides of the fence. Respect as always. Thank-you boys! 42655[/snapback] i have too agree ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.