AlVal Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 I have electric garage doors for my detached double garage - however, every time I come home, the whole idea of having electric garage doors is negated by the fact I have to get out of the car, go into the house and turn off the alarm before i can open the garage doors, as they're not an entry zone (and even if it was an entry zone, there wouldnt be enough time (optima 2+ alarm) to park car, close garage door and get back to the house and unset alarm) the tech details of the garage door opener are here: http://www.seip.com/Download/Einbauanleitu...ie_Englisch.pdf see page 12 As the optima 2+ is old anyway, im thinking ill upgrade while solving the garage door problem. The only way I can think of solving the garage door issue is by having an alarm that has multiple entry zones with different time delay settings for each, and a remote keypad for the garage. Another problem is that the existing cable to the garage door sensors is just a single cable, so how can I achieve all this with just a single cable from house to garage? guess I need to figure out how many cores the cable has? In my amateurish quest to design the new system, I've so far come up with the following specifications (note I also want text messaging alerts, hence the "cqr" box Is my method of approaching the detached garage a good way? is there an alternative method I've missed? some way of remotely turning off the alarm before opening the garage door perhaps? zones: Entry Zone: Front Door Entry Zone: Either of the two Garage Doors External Door at side of house (kitchen) External Door at back of house (living room) PIR Downstairs Hallway PIR Downstairs Living Room PIR Downstairs Dining Room Scantronic Panel 9751EN-00 Plug-in Prox Reader 934EUR-50 8 Zone Radio Expander 9960EUR-08 4 X RF Fobs 723REUR-50 Additional Keypad (with prox reader builtin) 9940EN 5 X prox tags CQR 6 input / 6 stored numbers incoming/outgoing texts GD-06 two new bells Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lectrician Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Looks like your opener has an output that will pulse when the door keyfob is operated. This is used usually to force a counter to count up one to record maintenance requirements. You could use this output to operate a relay which is wired in parallel with the magnetic door contacts. This would effectivly bypass the door contacts, and allow uninhibited entry to the garage when the door is opening. The garage would remain alarmed as long as the door was not ititiated, and as the only was to initiate it from outside is to operate it via a secure radio keyfob, I see little issue (although I guess it is not compliant). The internal switches to operate the door would be protected by the alarm, so an intruder could not operate these without first gaining access. Placing a keypad in the garage to disarm would then be a good idea, or on the next entry route into the house after an entry/exit door. I have no idea how pro's deal with lecky garage doors - Will be intersting to find others methods. As far as the single cable to the garage goes, it depends hugely on the panel you choose, but many are capable of having a network run down a cable, some using 4 cores and some 5. This network can usually have a keypad, and many keypads have provisions for connected a couple zones to them. There are also zone expanders available to connect to this network. As I said, it hugely depends on the make and model of alarm. Email : martin@askthetrades.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luggsey Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 I have electric garage doors for my detached double garage - however, every time I come home, the whole idea of having electric garage doors is negated by the fact I have to get out of the car, go into the house and turn off the alarm before i can open the garage doors, as they're not an entry zone (and even if it was an entry zone, there wouldnt be enough time (optima 2+ alarm) to park car, close garage door and get back to the house and unset alarm)the tech details of the garage door opener are here: http://www.seip.com/Download/Einbauanleitu...ie_Englisch.pdf see page 12 As the optima 2+ is old anyway, im thinking ill upgrade while solving the garage door problem. The only way I can think of solving the garage door issue is by having an alarm that has multiple entry zones with different time delay settings for each, and a remote keypad for the garage. Another problem is that the existing cable to the garage door sensors is just a single cable, so how can I achieve all this with just a single cable from house to garage? guess I need to figure out how many cores the cable has? In my amateurish quest to design the new system, I've so far come up with the following specifications (note I also want text messaging alerts, hence the "cqr" box Is my method of approaching the detached garage a good way? is there an alternative method I've missed? some way of remotely turning off the alarm before opening the garage door perhaps? zones: Entry Zone: Front Door Entry Zone: Either of the two Garage Doors External Door at side of house (kitchen) External Door at back of house (living room) PIR Downstairs Hallway PIR Downstairs Living Room PIR Downstairs Dining Room Scantronic Panel 9751EN-00 Plug-in Prox Reader 934EUR-50 8 Zone Radio Expander 9960EUR-08 4 X RF Fobs 723REUR-50 Additional Keypad (with prox reader builtin) 9940EN 5 X prox tags CQR 6 input / 6 stored numbers incoming/outgoing texts GD-06 two new bells If I was doing it I would interface the alarm to the garage door using a wireless keyfob. Get a keyfob and interface it to the alarm system via an input/spare zone and assign an output to open the garage door via a relay. Commercial and top end alarm panels can (As mentioned above) run a network, on my Menvier system for example a network cable (5 cores) can run a keypad with two zones in it and an output to trigger the garage door.... You will have to study the specs of panels you can source to find these options or get a pro in? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Life is like a box of chocolates, some bugger always gets the nice ones! My Amateur Radio Forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlVal Posted May 28, 2008 Author Share Posted May 28, 2008 thanks so much both of you for the most helpful information! I've talked to my local alarm companies (bedfordshire region), two of which were so poor at ringing me back etc or answering my questions that I finally decided neither would get my business - the third I recently spoke to looks more promising, I asked them what brand their engineers are most "fluent" in (as I dont want to spec a system they're not familiar with programming!) and I'm told they use texecom mostly. So I'm just looking at texecoms product range now to see what might work, If i understand things right, the texecom lcdcp remote keypads, as suggested earlier in this post, seem to have the ability to "tap off" and extra couple of zones, so hopefully this might work, using the idea, as suggested , of allowing an output from the garage door opener to turn the alarm off (assuming the alarm has such an "override" function that can be triggered in this way?) - also remember there are two garage doors, so either of them being triggered should turn the alarm off. I'm just wondering then, what's the best way to set the alarm when leaving the house.....! like i say, your input thus far very much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 Id agree with lugs, you need the panel to operate the doors, and id also overide it so that the output wont work if the system is armed, to prevent accidental operation. The texecom premier takes an rf expander that will allow the use of fobs, id then use the spare buttons to open the door that way you still keep an rf fob that can open the door. These garage doors are they like his and hers, ie one car always uses teh same garage. If so id program the fob to operate the relevant door as primary and also arm/disarm..... But id use a gal lol James securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luggsey Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 thanks so much both of you for the most helpful information!I've talked to my local alarm companies (bedfordshire region), two of which were so poor at ringing me back etc or answering my questions that I finally decided neither would get my business - the third I recently spoke to looks more promising, I asked them what brand their engineers are most "fluent" in (as I dont want to spec a system they're not familiar with programming!) and I'm told they use texecom mostly. So I'm just looking at texecoms product range now to see what might work, If i understand things right, the texecom lcdcp remote keypads, as suggested earlier in this post, seem to have the ability to "tap off" and extra couple of zones, so hopefully this might work, using the idea, as suggested , of allowing an output from the garage door opener to turn the alarm off (assuming the alarm has such an "override" function that can be triggered in this way?) - also remember there are two garage doors, so either of them being triggered should turn the alarm off. I'm just wondering then, what's the best way to set the alarm when leaving the house.....! like i say, your input thus far very much appreciated! If you use a radio keyfob and output you can *toggle* the output from the alarm to close the garage doors when set and open them on disarm if you wanted. I would use a multibutton unit to seperate the garage area and always have the garage alarm set when the doors were closed, that way you won't forget to arm the garage area. Also think about auto set on areas like the garage. I have my garage and shed on autoset (Networked system) as I'm useless at locking the door let alone setting the alarm!!! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Life is like a box of chocolates, some bugger always gets the nice ones! My Amateur Radio Forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 i cant d6wnload the pdf for some reason, so bare with me, i'm assuming there is a manual push button option i.e press to close and press to open, if its 2 separate buttons then a bit more modding would be needed, but not a problem and fairly "bread and butter" work tbh. imo auto set while it has value might create problems, if on a cold day you want to work on or hoover/wax the car and keep the garage door shut against the weather you would need to disable the auto arm, but only you would know if this is likely. if it were me, i'd use a gardtec G595 or G872 with 8 channel radio expander added, this hybrid expander will also support upto 8 x radio 4 button radio fobs. one of these buttons is 'free' to program for other duties, so for you opening the garage door. if you have a cable path between the garage and controls then the controls onboard relay or a programmable output (via a simple pcb relay) can deal with this. if no easy cable path, i'd fit a stand alone receiver in the garage and program the radio fob/s into both receivers. having such fobs allows instant set/unset or a short delay to both or either. you can still have a prox reader at the front door for those not using the garage. thats the outline, if you want more, i do cover bedford (from essex) so pm me, the scheme i offer operates both the garage and alarm on a single radio fob, while allowing up to 8 of them. regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luggsey Posted May 28, 2008 Share Posted May 28, 2008 i cant d6wnload the pdf for some reason, so bare with me, i'm assuming there is a manual push button option i.e press to close and press to open, if its 2 separate buttons then a bit more modding would be needed, but not a problem and fairly "bread and butter" work tbh. imo auto set while it has value might create problems, if on a cold day you want to work on or hoover/wax the car and keep the garage door shut against the weather you would need to disable the auto arm, but only you would know if this is likely. if it were me, i'd use a gardtec G595 or G872 with 8 channel radio expander added, this hybrid expander will also support upto 8 x radio 4 button radio fobs. one of these buttons is 'free' to program for other duties, so for you opening the garage door. if you have a cable path between the garage and controls then the controls onboard relay or a programmable output (via a simple pcb relay) can deal with this. if no easy cable path, i'd fit a stand alone receiver in the garage and program the radio fob/s into both receivers. having such fobs allows instant set/unset or a short delay to both or either. you can still have a prox reader at the front door for those not using the garage. thats the outline, if you want more, i do cover bedford (from essex) so pm me, the scheme i offer operates both the garage and alarm on a single radio fob, while allowing up to 8 of them. regs alan BTW I use timed auto set not instant set so all you would have to do is tap in the code or swipe the fob as you shut yourself in the garage, it's just an option, you can do this anyway you like in whatever order suits you but do remember alarm installers do this sort of thing all the time so carefully explain how you would like it to work and beat out the problems *before* install. As Arf says bread and butter work for most installers but beware the *installer* that only does basic alarms, you might not get what you think you are getting! Pay extra for the high spec kit, on a cold wet night when cheap rubbish fails you might regret it. Arf that 2500 I had from you will do all this and more! I'm going to interface it to the gate and the cameras one day! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Life is like a box of chocolates, some bugger always gets the nice ones! My Amateur Radio Forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted May 29, 2008 Share Posted May 29, 2008 BTW I use timed auto set not instant set so all you would have to do is tap in the code or swipe the fob as you shut yourself in the garage, it's just an option, you can do this anyway you like in whatever order suits you but do remember alarm installers do this sort of thing all the time so carefully explain how you would like it to work and beat out the problems *before* install.As Arf says bread and butter work for most installers but beware the *installer* that only does basic alarms, you might not get what you think you are getting! Pay extra for the high spec kit, on a cold wet night when cheap rubbish fails you might regret it. Arf that 2500 I had from you will do all this and more! I'm going to interface it to the gate and the cameras one day! i'm well pleased if it did you a favour, that panel is just so complex has tricks hidden everywhere, which is great if your work with them on a regular basis the. tech help desk offered to program it for me if i suppled supply the requirements so just shows how complex. when i used it imo it seems to throw out the window what would be normal attribute conventions or used terminology that was not so obvious to hack. the ProSys imo would possibly be a close rival and a good candidate for this job, it can incorporate full on access control with add on expander, so ideal (apart from cost) for this garage if a bit too heavy weight, but way too complex for most even full trade to fathom, let alone diy, and software is very americanised. regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlVal Posted June 2, 2008 Author Share Posted June 2, 2008 the local company on the beds list for me came out, and although I gave them detailed information, and even a copy of the pdf detailing all the garage door opener's inputs/outputs etc, they got back to me today saying they couldnt do it because "their systems worked on a different frequency to the garage door". I was about to explain that obviously an assigned button on the alarm system fob should disable the alarm, which should in turn open the garage door (by directly wired control via output) , but thought to myself, hang on a second, if I have to tell them how to do these kinds of things, there's something wrong. I'm tired of letting companies away with poor service (sorry, general rant about life there haha). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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