arfur mo Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 hi timothy, i would ask why would you need this option? i can appreciate your not wanting to disturb people (as they do tend to shoot each other out there to resolve issue's) but your system should be reliable enough not to be an issue, or be made so by your installer. i don't know of any panels which do this out of the box, other than in part set options where the siren is either selected or not to operate, but it's no great deal for an engineer to fit a proprietary delay timer board for you, if they can't I've never been to Atlanta (but always liked that cartoon featuring the guy with webbed feet (hint hint). regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimothMcDermott Posted May 8, 2007 Author Share Posted May 8, 2007 hi timothy,i would ask why would you need this option? i can appreciate your not wanting to disturb people (as they do tend to shoot each other out there to resolve issue's) but your system should be reliable enough not to be an issue, or be made so by your installer. i don't know of any panels which do this out of the box, other than in part set options where the siren is either selected or not to operate, but it's no great deal for an engineer to fit a proprietary delay timer board for you, if they can't I've never been to Atlanta (but always liked that cartoon featuring the guy with webbed feet (hint hint). regs alan This is just the client's preference. I wanted to make sure this wasn't likely to be a function of the panel before I designed a solution around a 555. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anguscanplay Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 is there an american version of the regs and what does it say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 tired,overworked,overpaid,underloved and miserable but mines bright and happy thanks i'd say clackaty clack, clackaty clack regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 This is just the client's preference. I wanted to make sure this wasn't likely to be a function of the panel before I designed a solution around a 555.Tim tbh the 555 is only reliable to be any good for a few minutes, we have OEM Timer Boords available over hear from 'handy little relay' made by TMC. you must have a firm in the states who make these universal timers. regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breff Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Dont most panels have a bell delay timer nowadays? The opinions I express are mine and are usually correct! (Except when I'm wrong)(which I'm not) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimothMcDermott Posted May 9, 2007 Author Share Posted May 9, 2007 Dont most panels have a bell delay timer nowadays? That is what I am asking, but haven't been able to get an answer to this simple question. Seems everyone's a laywer these days. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 That is what I am asking, but haven't been able to get an answer to this simple question. Seems everyone's a laywer these days.Tim i'd say just about all modern panels do have a 'bells delay', but that also delays the internal sirens after an alarm condition, normally used to allow the Police to attend before detering the intuders, which is not the effect you wanted or asked for. so it's not us 'being lawyers' it's thinking through the circumstances properly as laid out by you, and responding as professionals i.e. concidering 'cause and effect' when answering. if you wanted to use the on-board delayed bells timer, but also have an internal siren operate on immediate mode, then if the panel has a signalling output for a transmitter, by use of a transistorised relay this output could sound and internal sirem immediately an alarm occurs from the digi output. but i say again, if the system is reliable confidence will ensue and negate the need for this delay, which imo should never ever be needed. as all true professional engineers, i hold a zero tollerence approach to false alarms or mis-operation as a matter of personal pride, so either change the faulty items to better ones, alter or design the system properly and instruct and train the users thouroughly - they are all goldern rules. in my user training sessions, the very first thing i say is the kit i use is very very reliable, and the care taken (due to my own extensive service/fault finding experience) means any faults are built out, so i will always suspect the client/user first way before the system - and thats point blank and makes them sity up and think -oh s**t i better listen.. i know that sounds exceedingly big headed - but it's deliberately designed and meant to be. i find showing that very high level of self confidence is effective in ensuring correct use of the system by keyholders, they just don't want to be embarrased by calling me back on a user error, and receive the smug 'i told you so' routine from me. regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anguscanplay Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 simle answer then two ply entry timer - keypad then loudspeaker sounds then external sounder bell delay - keypad sounds then nothing till bell delay time expired either way i cant see the reason not to sound an alarm unless its to allow for a guard / police responce it reads as if your looking to do something that isnt within the normal operating procedure for alarm systems so its natural for us to be wary and ask you if you had thought it through - all our systems have to comply with the regs etc and if people start " "altering " things it invalidates insurance`s etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimothMcDermott Posted May 9, 2007 Author Share Posted May 9, 2007 i'd say just about all modern panels do have a 'bells delay', but that also delays the internal sirens after an alarm condition normally used to allow the Police to attend before detering the intuders, which is not the effect you wanted. so it's not us 'being lawyers' it's thinking through the circumstances properly as laid out by you and responding as professionals i.e. concidering 'cause and effect'. if you wanted to use the delay timer but have an internal siren then if the panel has a signalling output for a transmitter, by use of a transistorised relay this out put could sound and internalk sirem immediately. but i say again if the system is reliable this delay should never ever be needed - and i, as all pro engineers hold a zero tollerence approach on false alarms as a matter of personal pride. regs alan Thanks Alan, My client may well be satisfied with both the internal and external sounders being on a brief delay, but I'll investigate why false alarms are such a concern in the first place. He may merely be like me, however, and simply yank open the door on the way out without remembering that he had armed himself in. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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