Guest Sh4rpie Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 Lots of people on this forum are slating these (solar) Response wireless alarms. I have been installing them for years now (as well as wired systems) and have NEVER had an actual problem with them. A couple of settings have needed to be changed or removed, such as disabling the jamming detection and occasionally adjusting the tamper switch on the siren. but once this is done then no problems have occured since. (seriously not one comeback!) I was wondering what stories you guys have on installing/using these systems, just to get a view of why people think theyre a bad alarm. (other than the fact they are supposed to be DIY and therefore not ideal for an engineer) educate me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sh4rpie Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 not all of the systems have it disabled, but if the alarm is installed in a heavily populated area then there is a lot of other products working on the same frequency. this does not affect the performance of the alarm, i admit however that it can be a little over-sensitive if jamming detection is installed in the siren. but as a deterant, to have the detection removed makes no difference whatsoever. It is only the detection on the siren outside that needs to be removed, the detection can still be left on at the panel with no adverse effecs as this triggers the solar siren anyway. I have replaced a few wired systems with the response ones, mainly for elderly and disabled clients who seem to like the fact you can arm/disarm the system with the remote controls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sh4rpie Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 yes, yes and yes. the customers ask me to install these alarms from word of mouth as i do not advertise the 'Response system' installation (yet). installation costs are a lot less than for a wired system so i'll be lucky if i get to majorca next year from these installs. I have other engineers that can maintain the wireless alarms if needed, but as i said before, so far (touch wood) i havent had a single comeback from these alarms and yearly maintenance reveals happy customers STILL! recommendations still keep coming and in my eyes that is the best compliment (and tips of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellman Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 I was wondering what stories you guys have on installing/using these systems, just to get a view of why people think theyre a bad alarm. (other than the fact they are supposed to be DIY and therefore not ideal for an engineer)educate me I have removed several of these systems and others like them. They have suffered from the usual wireless problems, false alarms for several reasons, poor reception from detectors causing Tamper or low battery problems, detectors that walk test ok then fail to activate when triggered (because other devices are transmitting on the same band). If they had their own empty band half the problems would dissapear (the jamming problems you mention are directly due to other equipment being on the same frequency.) The quality of them also leaves a lot to be desired. In my professional opinion I couldn't possibly recommend that anybody buy one and use it as the main form of protection for their home, never mind run one with one of it's tamper protection methods (anti-jamming) disabled. I do look after several class 6 systems so I'm not anti-wireless, It has it's place but at the present moment in time I would not consider them a replacement for a proper wired system. No doubt technology will progress and the reliability will increase but at the moment I'm dubious of their reliability due to past experiances and having my fingers burnt with wireless systems a few times in the past. Strangely enough I look after the alarm systems for several of the DIY box shifters, None of those are wireless so what does that tell you May I ask how long you have been in the game and what experiances of other alarm equipment you may have had that have pushed you down the wireless route? Also why settle on a cheap low end featureless response system when there are several professional systems availible that use much better technology hence they are infinately more reliable, The signal problems still occur though and careful positioning of devices is needed to minimise this. Also the signal can still be drowned out by other radio devices nearby, "frequency bleed" also occurs with poorly designed equipment and that can also interfere with the alarm. As Georg mentioned in a previous thread, the majority of them can be fairly easily circumvented with little knowledge or skill and without the need for expensive or complicated equipment. Regards Bellman Service Engineer and all round nice bloke ) The views above are mine and NOT those of my employer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sh4rpie Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 The jamming detection needs only to be removed from the siren. so the system is still functional as there is still jamming detection installed on the control panel. I have worked for many alarm companies for over ten years now. mainly installing wired systems (and still do) of various makes. my own company has been running for eight years so far, installing both wired and wireless systems. i have had trouble with wired systems in the past with false alarms due to power surges,lighning strikes and corroded/broken cables which the wireless ones dont seem to have such problems with. they both have their + and - sides though. also most 'problems' (code changes, dial numbers, latch key etc) with the wireless systems can be solved through a phone call therefore no need for a callout. I just find these systems to be reliable and effective but they keep getting slated on here and i was wondering why as i have had an excellant success rate for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 From my point of view, we as nacoss gold or any silver, ssaib company cannot install these systems, we are just not allowed too, so from the above posts, what does this tell you. With respect just cos you have fitted x with no problems is not a reason alone to rate these products. As stated these a diy product, just like you can work on your own car, bioler etc. If you disbale jamming then its stops complying with whatever approval it has (i assume the old class 1 standard) so its not on at all, regardless of reason. If i disabled my oil warning light on my car then it would stop coming on, wonder what would happen eventually! securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellman Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 The jamming detection needs only to be removed from the siren. so the system is still functional as there is still jamming detection installed on the control panel. Hmm, The one bit of equipment that needs the most protection is the warning device. You shouldn't have to be disabling it's securty protection system. i have had trouble with wired systems in the past with false alarms due to power surges,lighning strikes and corroded/broken cables which the wireless ones dont seem to have such problems with. they both have their + and - sides though. Power surges shouldn't affect battery powered systems for the obvious reason I have had far more problems with wireless systems in electrical storms than wires, a simple walk down the street when it's thundering will show this. also most 'problems' (code changes, dial numbers, latch key etc) with the wireless systems can be solved through a phone call therefore no need for a callout.I just find these systems to be reliable and effective but they keep getting slated on here and i was wondering why as i have had an excellant success rate for them. As with wired, most "issues" are customer related and can be telephone fixed but that doesn't remove the inherent problems associated with wireless equipment. A lot of installers also look at them with liability for non performance in mind. I'm supprised you have had no problems with them as virtually every installer I know has. You didn't answer my query earlier, why the choice of response DIY equipment over several other professional systems? is it just the cost perspective? Regards Bellman Service Engineer and all round nice bloke ) The views above are mine and NOT those of my employer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sh4rpie Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 yeah, its pretty much a cost thing. a lot of my customers will not alarm their property due to the cost of an installed wired system. but they still want an alarm of some kind. so after a lot of research and trials, the response systems have so far out lasted and out performed most of the other less expensive systems on the market. you seem to miss the functioning of the jamming detection feature on these systems. there are two places you can turn it on. if installed on the siren it will tend to pick up more signals that the control unit but if you take it off the siren outside the function is still there, but less spurious signals are detected by the control unit so the 'false alarms' are stopped. the control unit also has an inbuilt siren and triggers the outside siren if jamming is detected, its just more sensitive in the box outside. when i say ive installed x amount of systems im estimating about 200+ of these. and after removing the jamming detection from the siren NONE have come back with any problems apart from a couple of PIRs were faulty and drained batteries pretty fast. but once replaced all worked fine If its just the jamming detection that has been a problem with these systems then, surely a stable, inexpensive, reliable system is a good option for money conscious customers. Its better to have one of these than no system at all? This post was supposed to be what 'problems have you encountered' not 'these systems are useless if you remove the jamming detection - discuss' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellman Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 yeah, its pretty much a cost thing. a lot of my customers will not alarm their property due to the cost of an installed wired system. but they still want an alarm of some kind. so after a lot of research and trials, the response systems have so far out lasted and out performed most of the other less expensive systems on the market. Thought it would be cost biased. although proffessional wireless equipment is as expensive if not more expensive than the wired equivilant. you seem to miss the functioning of the jamming detection feature on these systems. there are two places you can turn it on. if installed on the siren it will tend to pick up more signals that the control unit but if you take it off the siren outside the function is still there, but less spurious signals are detected by the control unit so the 'false alarms' are stopped.the control unit also has an inbuilt siren and triggers the outside siren if jamming is detected, its just more sensitive in the box outside. I got that, I was commenting that surely if you are disabling the anti jam then you are reducing the security of the system. whats the point of having a feature you have to switch off because it is unreliable? when i say ive installed x amount of systems im estimating about 200+ of these. and after removing the jamming detection from the siren NONE have come back with any problems apart from a couple of PIRs were faulty and drained batteries pretty fast. but once replaced all worked fineIf its just the jamming detection that has been a problem with these systems then, surely a stable, inexpensive, reliable system is a good option for money conscious customers. Its better to have one of these than no system at all? Granted anything is better than nothing, but there again, what is worse, a false sense of security or no security at all I've linked tamper loops out on a few systems that were having tamper faults, supprisingly thay have not sufered from tamper problems since What your doing is not solving the problem, it's bypassing it. This post was supposed to be what 'problems have you encountered' not 'these systems are useless if you remove the jamming detection - discuss' Jamming is one of the main problems as it falls within the interference issues that all radio gear suffers from. batteries also cause problems as does poor installation (due to signal problems caused by building construction and the like). All in all I've had far more problems with radio systems than I have ever had with wired ones, I'm not a fan to be honest and most installers I know share simlar views. As I said above some of the newer kit is getting better with the advances in technology but at the same time more devices are becoming radio based therefore the amount of interference is also increasing. Regards Bellman Service Engineer and all round nice bloke ) The views above are mine and NOT those of my employer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 28, 2006 Share Posted September 28, 2006 ...also most 'problems' (code changes, dial numbers, latch key etc) with the wireless systems can be solved through a phone call therefore no need for a callout. ... err? how is it relevant to these 'problems' if a system is wireless or wired?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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