arfur mo Posted July 30, 2006 Share Posted July 30, 2006 hi all, i would think that LCR companies usage is the major problem here, i've known of it for many when i did direct digi central station connections it was put in the paperwork not route alarm calls this way to protect me. now i might be a little behind as all my newer systems which are monitored are dealt with by another company who take them over, but here go's nothing -: options! (simplest 1st.) 1) Return Pathe Signaling used to be very popular - ie keyholder sets but setting bleep will not cancel until CS responds to aknowledges it, with automatic ARC's today the didgi can give a confirmed signal which could be a buzzer or short duration descrete indicator. 2) dual reporting - ie reports to second number in case first choice is busy or 'stacking'. big ARC's have more than one location, so if the first is buisy, the second number means the signal attempt go's to the backup ARC. 3) If LCR has to be first choice, then insert the number with 1280 as second destination number, this way if LCR is removed it still transmits on the second attempt. slow 'SET' responses from CS should result in irritation of keyholders and subsequent call to alarm co. the above is exsplained in reasonable detail for the op's benifit and with full respect. i know as engineers we would know al the above options. i'm not sure if 'RPS' is an ideal option as it could be some time before the signal is received, and the keyholder would need to remain outside - with risk of a possible attack should it be a regular occurance. one way arround this is a Texacom voice or text dialler (imo excellent bit of kit) programmed to signal a mobile when the 'SET' or 'FTC' is indicated by the digi. regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymruchris Posted August 5, 2006 Author Share Posted August 5, 2006 Thanks for all the good advice so far... We've now sent some engineers to three sites to ensure we use the 1280 prefix.... We do use call routing, through Energis. We'll now monitor these three sites against the others for the next few weeks and see if it makes a difference... I'm surprised that the people from both of these big alarm providers weren't aware of this issue... But hey - we all learn... I'll let you all know how we're doing in a couple of weeks - and then if it works - you can have that week off you promised yourself Mr Nova Security!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 Thanks for all the good advice so far... We've now sent some engineers to three sites to ensure we use the 1280 prefix....We do use call routing, through Energis. I'll let you all know how we're doing in a couple of weeks - and then if it works - you can have that week off you promised yourself Mr Nova Security!! hi cymruchris, i'm not sure if you grasped my thinking here, digi's have initial comms settings with 2 - 4 numbers, and a second comms for dual reporting again with 2 - 4 numbers, make sure the 2nd number in both has 1280 in front of it, this will force it through BT as a carrier. LCR these days is usually inacted from the exchange, thats why you can switch provider over the internet or phone call. no engineer or gizmo (like murcury used to have) is needed. the companies compress calls into less lines by using the gaps in speech to transmit voice on another call using high speed switching, this is what cause's the problem to intermittently be noticed, and more worryingly you may delay an alarm call signal being received and acted on, concider confirmed signal requirements and you double the problem. as this is the public area LCR will not affect you voice diallers, digtal communicators work like a fax machine but without the error correction, thats why you can't use LCR on digi's so, the simple advice in the politest possible way is REMOVE LCR FROM THE ALARM DIGI LINE'S better to save the store's stock than a few pence on a daily phone call i can't say plainer than that. if LCR is being routed by your private telephone exchange the numbers used have them programmed off on that extention by your phone system maintainer, or have central station numbers as exceptions to the LCR settings, some have different carriers for day and night so check that out to. regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova-Security Posted August 5, 2006 Share Posted August 5, 2006 I'll let you all know how we're doing in a couple of weeks - and then if it works - you can have that week off you promised yourself Mr Nova Security!! Iam back after a week off, chris if you get fed up with these big companies you know who you can try, another week off now. www.nova-security.co.uk www.nsiapproved.co.uk No PMs please unless i know you or you are using this board with your proper name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 9651 Posted August 18, 2006 Share Posted August 18, 2006 i'd put money on it being broadband...... stick the digi though an adsl filter and i reckon that'll sort it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cymruchris Posted August 19, 2006 Author Share Posted August 19, 2006 Well we sent an engineer out to 3 sites as stated... but the problem has not repeated itself at ANY sites... It's disappeared.... How weird? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
golfball Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 When the stores close, they set the alarm, leave the store, and go home. A couple of hours later the ARC runs a report to see who hasn't closed yet, and they begin ringing round to find out why stores are still open. When they speak to these high street stores, the staff know that they've set the alarm, although the close signal has not come through.The keyholders then revisit site - open, then close, and the ARC centre then receives the close signal with no issue. Ive had a couple do this recently as customers changed from bt to a cable company just told the ARC to POLL again funny the reply i got was "AH YES HERE IT COMES NOW" Life is like a box of choclates.....if you dont get there first your left with all the naff ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Well we sent an engineer out to 3 sites as stated... but the problem has not repeated itself at ANY sites... It's disappeared.... How weird? it is either ARC or the installation company who is hiding something. possibly ARC really noticed they have too little receivers and bought new ones (or then organised their existing ones properly). possibly installation company noticed programming flaw and fixed rest of the sites via UDL.. did you get panel event logs from time before and time after the fault was fixed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova-Security Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Well we sent an engineer out to 3 sites as stated... but the problem has not repeated itself at ANY sites... It's disappeared.... How weird? Just be careful, we had this sometimes it was ok and months later open signals disappered, put the prefix code in and its been fine, but if then the customer comes off call routing then the prefix needs removing. www.nova-security.co.uk www.nsiapproved.co.uk No PMs please unless i know you or you are using this board with your proper name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Thanks for all the good advice so far... We've now sent some engineers to three sites to ensure we use the 1280 prefix....We do use call routing, through Energis. We'll now monitor these three sites against the others for the next few weeks and see if it makes a difference... I'm surprised that the people from both of these big alarm providers weren't aware of this issue... But hey - we all learn... I'll let you all know how we're doing in a couple of weeks - and then if it works - you can have that week off you promised yourself Mr Nova Security!! hi cymruchris, what you mean you never ever got the 'thats never happened before' routine - shame on them, it's the first words tought to a service engineer regs alan Well we sent an engineer out to 3 sites as stated... but the problem has not repeated itself at ANY sites... It's disappeared.... How weird? perhaps they are members of this forum and picked up on the advice? you want to ask what they did regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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