Guest Kilo-Foxtrot Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 Hi, I'm not sure if this is the right place for the question, but I have a Firequest panel with one loop that keeps going into a fire condition randomly. It's using about 40 xp95 devices inc 5x I/O units and a switch monitor for the class change. From what I can tell, there is corrupt data going through the loop putting random devices into fire and so far have changed about 8 devices inc 4x I/O units. I've run an apollo loop tester thats given the all clear and have changed the firequest cpu, loop card and baseboard, and to be honest short of changing the remaining devices on the loop I've run out of ideas. Has anyone else experienced this sort of thing, or suggest something that I'm missing? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truss and France Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 I have never had this problem before, but heres a few things to try or questions that only you can answer. Is it a new install with new cabling? Has the loop cable been installed away from any mains cables? Does the loop tester read all the devices both ways on the loop? Any double addresses? Do you have loop sounders? Does the loop have a clean earth all the way round and is it earthed in the panel, if you have earthed it on both in coming cables try it with one side disconnected. What type of cable is it? The cabling is all OK no cross polarity anywhere? Is there a radio or phone mast in the area? I dont think changing the devices will solve your problem as it is very rare for these detectors to play up. Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esp-protocol Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 Are you sure that "corruption" would cause the false alarms, and not just give you lots of "bad data" and spurious faults on the loop? What might be the source of the corruption? Presumably there are no earth faults? Is it possible to split the loop and narrow down the source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcelec Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 is it a new system or have you replaced an existing system? because if you had replaced an existing system that used a different protocol then if there was any devices still left on the loop you will get corrupt data and some times it does cause random false alarms? best thing to do would be to split the loop up and try and trace the section causing the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kilo-Foxtrot Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 I have never had this problem before, but heres a few things to try or questions that only you can answer.Is it a new install with new cabling? Has the loop cable been installed away from any mains cables? Does the loop tester read all the devices both ways on the loop? Any double addresses? Do you have loop sounders? Does the loop have a clean earth all the way round and is it earthed in the panel, if you have earthed it on both in coming cables try it with one side disconnected. What type of cable is it? The cabling is all OK no cross polarity anywhere? Is there a radio or phone mast in the area? I dont think changing the devices will solve your problem as it is very rare for these detectors to play up. Kev Its not a new install, probably about 2 - 3 years old but the site does have history of various individual problems. I'm not sure about whether the cable is installed away from mains cabling. The loop tester does read all the devices both ways and there isn't any earth faults (although there has been in the past but have since been cleared). The cabling is fine and there isnt any radio or phone masts to my knowledge. In my (limited) experience I've found apollo devices to be reliable, but I also know that PSS panels have a more restrictive fault tolerance than what apollo have for their devices which leads me to beleive that a device on this system may be faulty enough for it to upset the panel but if used on a different one it would be ok. I am open to other ideas though so keep them coming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bri Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 I think we're still o looking at an earth fault somewhere on the loop Bri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cerberus NI Posted June 4, 2006 Share Posted June 4, 2006 Check your device numbers on the loop and make sure that you have no double addresses.I had the misfortune in looking after a PSS 5000 panel which was giving spurious false alarms, which was getting put down to contamination.I got called to site,removed the offending head and decided to check the values of the other heads before replacing it.You can imagine how surprised I was to see the detector I was holding in my hand returning a value of 20!!As it turned out the detectors (XP95) had been in a while and they had been taken out and cleaned.They weren't returned to the same bases as they were all opitcals and the pins had stuck in the old allocated address.This meant that there were detectors combined values of 40 and greater.This explained why pre-alarms were a common occurance and that a true rise to pre-alarm put the device into fire (45 plus whatever it's "double" was reading!) It just re-inforced my opinion of them!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esp-protocol Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Check your device numbers on the loop and make sure that you have no double addresses.I had the misfortune in looking after a PSS 5000 panel which was giving spurious false alarms, which was getting put down to contamination.I got called to site,removed the offending head and decided to check the values of the other heads before replacing it.You can imagine how surprised I was to see the detector I was holding in my hand returning a value of 20!!As it turned out the detectors (XP95) had been in a while and they had been taken out and cleaned.They weren't returned to the same bases as they were all opitcals and the pins had stuck in the old allocated address.This meant that there were detectors combined values of 40 and greater.This explained why pre-alarms were a common occurance and that a true rise to pre-alarm put the device into fire (45 plus whatever it's "double" was reading!)It just re-inforced my opinion of them!!! Bloody xpert cards.... complete pain in the 'arris. Hochiki any day !! Had the boys in a few weeks back to service an "algo rex" siemens panel (or is it "tex") hands up, i was impressed by bits of it .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esp-protocol Posted June 5, 2006 Share Posted June 5, 2006 Anyway... how often is this thing going into alarm...I had a dodgy earth fault that only appeared when it rained... the apprentice got soaked looking for that one... Presuming you have more than one loop you could try swapping loops and relearning to see if the fault follows.... If you're really ambitious and you have a spare "decent" panel - Advanced/Morley/Kentec etc you could move the loop completely and test your theory regarding tolerances, then sell the customer a new panel. But personally I would still go with splitting the loop to try and narrow it down.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cerberus NI Posted June 6, 2006 Share Posted June 6, 2006 Bloody xpert cards.... complete pain in the 'arris.Hochiki any day !! Had the boys in a few weeks back to service an "algo rex" siemens panel (or is it "tex") hands up, i was impressed by bits of it .... Yeah, its good kit - next generation is the Sinteso detectors - two heat detectors and two optical detectors (fwd and rvse scan). Only thing is the freon won't set it off as the cold gas tells the head it isn't fire smoke! I know that on the Minerva I turned the ROR processing off when testing the smokies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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