27 replies to this topic

[Chorlton]

spelling?

A for alternating, D for Direct & C for Current is all I know.
should I know more?

[mojo]

SUBS, on Apr 9 2009, 12:11 PM, said:

if u need to find how good some one is ask them whats difference between AC and DC voltage(o)

What will that prove ?

My 13 year old daughter knows that..................and personally I wouldnt take on a tea boy who didnt.

Are you for real mate, or are your posts all wind ups ?

No I am for real,and dont mean to wind up any one

[DirectFS]

SUBS, on Apr 9 2009, 12:11 PM, said:

if u need to find how good some one is ask them whats difference between AC and DC voltage(o)

What will that prove ?

My 13 year old daughter knows that..................and personally I wouldnt take on a tea boy who didnt.

Are you for real mate, or are your posts all wind ups ?

Indeed - far better to ask them to wire a relay. If they can even identify one not already stick to a handy little bit of board these days......

Bill.

adpteddy, on Jan 10 2009, 10:19 PM, said:

I am thinking of adding Fire Alarm Installation/Maintainance to my security business but obviously will need to send engineers on courses before I can.
After looking through various web sites it all seems as clear as mud on what courses I need, please can I have some advise on what courses I will need to go on, who are the best people to do courses with and rough costs i am going to encounter.

Many Thanks
Luke.

As people have said - the "old" BFPSA courses run by the FIA are probably the "deFacto" recognised level of qualification, as far as it goes. They show that you've done the modules, and should, in theory, have the necessary competence to carry out work on a fire alarm system. I say in theory, because as others have indicated, the practice is sometimes a little different.

As a minimum you need people with good electrical competence - the electrical installation city and guilds are normally mentioned, because at least then your guys have some understanding of how to correctly install an electrical system, in a safe and competent manner.

There would be mileage, if your guys have a basic competence and can understand circuits outside of intruder alarms (not all can), in getting in touch with manufacturers, such as Kentec, or Morley (Honeywell) and asking what sort of basic training they can organise for your business - maybe in return for using their products exclusively for a little while (depends on the volume of fire business you intend to do really).

And as everyone else has said, as both the RRO and 5839 (and EN54) indicate, part of competence is understanding of the regulations. You do have a full copy of BS 5839?? Get Colin Todd's book - published by BSI - The Design, Installation, Commissioning and Maintenance of Fire Detection and Fire Alarm Systems. A Guide to BS 5829-1 (Third Edition).

It's about £42 on Amazon - but well worth it - it may provide a basic understanding of the technicalities of getting fire alarm systems right. Once you've swallowed that, reassess whether you want to move into fire alarm work. If you do, it would be worth making sure your engineers understand the content of the book too. Then get them to do the FIA courses, then speak to manufacturers about product training. Then think about gaining some business.

Bill.

mikex79, on Jan 29 2009, 08:25 PM, said:

hi everyone
but can anybody explain me what is the MUST that i need to have (certificate, exam, degree) to install fire alarms and certyfy them so I coud do a complete job from the beginning (projects) to certify them and maintain a ready fit system?

Simple, really. You don't need anything. Until it all goes tits up on you, that is, then you'll need to prove competence, correct procedure, and probably that you have adequate insurance cover....

That's the realists view anyway.

Probably better to have the necessary training, knowledge, and experience before you touch a fire alarm. EG - FIA courses, electrical competence qualification of some sort, and probably some time spent doing it in a non critical environment.

Bill.

[jameswilson]

bill even with insurwnce that wont protect you from prison. Whoever signs it off IS responsible for it. So any loss of life due to you.... and its pass the soap time

[DirectFS]

redbull, on Apr 9 2009, 12:45 PM, said:

bill even with insurwnce that wont protect you from prison. Whoever signs it off IS responsible for it. So any loss of life due to you.... and its pass the soap time

Agreed - but, the point was insurance cover should be in place as a minimum like the guy asked. No suggestion it would stop you going to prison......

Normally, catastrophic failure of a fire alarm system (i.e. loss of life), will result in a very lengthy investigation of (a) the subscriber, ( the fire, © the reason for the fire, (d) the fire alarm company, (e) the maintenance record for the fire alarm, (f) other fire protection, detection, fighting in place, (g), the building itself - to name just a few areas.

Now, if plod and forensics pop along after your fire alarm failed to tell the former occupant of a building that it was time to run, the very least you'd want in place were proof of competence (not just that you've been on the course), proof of design of the system - if yours, or an indication of who the designer was, if not, insurance to practice your trade - e.g. liability cover (they'll be coming after you for rebuilding and loss of business costs too if you get the blame), proof that you've maintained the system in accordance with both design and applicable standards, and probably quite a bit more besides.

Mostly, proof of competence is established by the way you're running other non-affected systems, and the fact that your business is geared to be doing that kind of work (in part having the proper insurances in place).

It was a minimum, not a protection......

Bill.

[MatonTE1]

redbull, on Apr 9 2009, 12:45 PM, said:

bill even with insurwnce that wont protect you from prison. Whoever signs it off IS responsible for it. So any loss of life due to you.... and its pass the soap time

It depends on the category that the system is installed to.
All fire alarm systems aren't life systems.I have just finished two systems that are P2/M so as long as the sounders are audibe in the case of someone hitting a MCP then any loss of life isn't included (harsh but indicative on how important it is in making sure you are signing off on the right category).

[sjsturner]

i think what everyone is getting at is the fact that it is essential that people working on f/a systems know what there doing.and i think redbull is saying that if the system was not installed correctly then he could be facing time. this would happen regardless of alarm cattagory

[kensplace]

Nowt wrong with asking about a/c d/c

I bet many people these days would be clueless.

heard one 17 year old recently who did not know what a fortnight was....

he thought is was two or three days..


Dumbing down, thats what the government wanted (off the record) thats what they got..

Win for them, lose for us.