Paul Giles Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Just browsing through the latest issue of security installer and they are really pushing the alarms as a way for sparkies to make a few extra quid. More and more people on this forum are fitting systems by themselves (diyers). It is getting stupid, no wonder people dont take any notice of alarms anymore. I feel that the alarm industry has lost all respect with such examples of //.National Installer.// boxes being sold by anyone and electricians being actively pushed into fitting alarms. I wonder how long it would take for pro elec to start moaning if PSI started a 'wire a ring circuit' step by step every month? Its about time we had regulation and by that i mean the inspectorates that we all pay large sums of money to to get off their asses and start promoting quality and approved companies in the press and on TV. I am a sparks by trade and am not tarring all sparkies with the same brush but when i was just an electrician my insurance was sub £200, now i am paying at least a £1000 more than that, let alone having to provide 24-hr cover and the purchase of certificates etc. The inspectorates are very guilty of sitting back and letting us the installers cope with new procedures and requirements as well as educating the end user just why they should chose an approved firm and not someone else or simple buy a system off the shelf. I know we still have URN's under our belt but for how long? We all know the industrial and commercial market is becoming saturated and people are starting to look at the domestic market but just how many people actually want the systems? It is all to common to hear the sayings that no one takes any notice of them and the police never turn up anyway! This forum shows the true passion of quality installers and its about time we stood up to the NSI and SSAIB to enforce some rules in the industry. There should be licensing issues regarding the installation of intruder alarms, not just selling them to anyone who wants a go so they can go off all weekend. Insurers should be activley encouraging discounts. The public should be made aware of the benefits of using NSI and SSAIB approved firms. I think //.National Installer.// have got a big battle on their hands, just how long before premises are broken into on the assumption that its simply a box bought from Ebay? Yes i know if its a real system the alarm would activate but surely respect is being lost rapidly? I think it should be regulation that should a client cease maintenance, the installing firm MUST remove their logos form the equipment. The firm i used to work for used to tamper the decoy boxes to prevent removal and also fitted blank lids to external boxes upon the maintenance contract ceasing. Well my rant is over, just gets me very annoyed! Look forward to your comments. Paul PG Security Systems Somerset SSAIB Certificate of Merit Installers. www.pgsecurity.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.paul Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Well said mate :thumbs_up: The problem is getting companies to stand up and be counted.. Some of us are trying (who said very ), have a look at the I.A.I.N site But it going to be a up hill battle Paul There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 It is already like that here at the "cold lands".. Electricians and DIYers installing security systems. This has caused disrespect towards the security industry. Insurance companies has their own certificates, but even they don't know about them. What they ask from the customer is what equipment is used. They should be asking what and who installed it. New "security" companies are established almost every day by people who are more excited of alarms than interested how alarms really should be installed to work properly or have any knowhow or proper education. I think it is up to us to make GOOD certificate for INSTALLERS who can be called PROFESSIONALS. That would help the whole industry and especially PRO's. Maybe someone starts a topic in Trade Members section?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brushpusher Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 I think //.National Installer.// have got a big battle on their hands, just how long before premises are broken into on the assumption that its simply a box bought from Ebay? Yes i know if its a real system the alarm would activate but surely respect is being lost rapidly? I think it should be regulation that should a client cease maintenance, the installing firm MUST remove their logos form the equipment. The firm i used to work for used to tamper the decoy boxes to prevent removal and also fitted blank lids to external boxes upon the maintenance contract ceasing. Well my rant is over, just gets me very annoyed! Look forward to your comments. Paul 28295[/snapback] Quite right, Chubb used to remove bell boxes when the contract was terminated. As it was considered a registered trademark. In fact service engineers used to report back to the office, any boxes which appeared on jobs which were not genuine customers. These jobs would be checked and if not genuine the site had a letter demanding that they removed the box or face court action. Don't know if this still happens but not a bad idea. Right off the rewire the house using a Wickes how to do it leaflet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Giles Posted October 21, 2004 Author Share Posted October 21, 2004 Quote Just browsing through the latest issue of security installer and they are really pushing the alarms as a way for sparkies to make a few extra quid. whoops! made a mistake! I was looking through professional electrician not security installer doh! PG Security Systems Somerset SSAIB Certificate of Merit Installers. www.pgsecurity.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Giles Posted October 21, 2004 Author Share Posted October 21, 2004 Good angle re. trademark. Most of the nationals do use 'unique' boxes so perhaps it could be deemed as a trademark and all the legal battles that could ensue over fitting it? Just imagine if mr saturday bought one then lashed it to the front of the house, then proceeded to clip the cable to it?? doesn't bear thinkin about. PG Security Systems Somerset SSAIB Certificate of Merit Installers. www.pgsecurity.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Quotewhoops! made a mistake! I was looking through professional electrician not security installer doh! 28320[/snapback] Probably much the same story though, 1 page article on how to charge a customer full price for half a system. I'll admit that I am a sparky that fits alarms, but I know what I can do and anything more than that and I'll call someone who can do it properly, not lash it in half arsed. I've worked with plenty of sparks in the past who struggle with the complexities of operating a screwdriver but still wire alarms (badly) and are quite proud to admit the fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb-eye Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 28295[/snapback] Paul It’s very difficult to control standards, as there will always be good and bad in any industry. There are competent DIYers and some will install intruder much better than any of us because they have the time. Electricians are perfectly placed to install security and are adequately equipped to do so. Do you fit security lights, fused spurs, fire alarms and a host of other 230v items? im sure you do. Talk about taking the bread out of another’s mouth. The electrical industry has been sorting itself out for some time, look at the JIB cards scheme and what about Part P. It’s not only down to the inspectorates to promote our industry its down to us; I for one don’t want to fork out on extra charges to cover TV advertising. Its not what you do its about how you do it. Some of the best security engineers out there will never be able to make ends meet because they undervalue their own worth and try to compete with lesser mortals. Others are good at sales and not so good at what they do, these guys seem to make the most money but then cut and run. My own Inspectorate has shortcomings but are right up their with regard to regulations and keeping me informed. The URN issue is up to us, we were warned in 1995 and ignored the issue we only have ourselves to blame if the URN goes. Its true what you say about alarms being ignored, so why fit them. I make a bold stance on not fitting Bells Only how many of you can say you have the courage of your own conviction. If you take the shilling don’t complain about lack of respect. To write your views on a public forum takes gusto, and some times things we say will return and bite us back. But how many of you will go to a survey and when told. I have a dog, offer pet detectors. “They don’t give full protection” or seismic window sensors “ They will false alarm at least twice a year” No you take the money and then place yourselves above the allusive cowboy. Yes I went to survey a residential two weeks ago, which came via NSI web site, I told the customer we only fit monitored alarms before survey and then came across the pet problem (should have asked before) I walked away because I couldn’t fix the job to a reasonable standard. We don’t sell our alarm equipment only the installation. And again others don’t like this practice. But the customer gets a great deal. Be honest how many fit ADE, & TEXACOM (associated with DIY) and wire all systems without EOL how many reduce bell times to 5 mins. We have to put our own houses in order. You have raised some thought probing issues during your rant. Don’t Stop. Oh one final thing Georg! Don’t hijack someone else’s post and use it as your own it appears to me you have too little to say for some one with so many posts. Regards jef Customers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 I can honestly say that I have NO FA's policy. I do not fit anything that might cause FA's. Naturally some FA's happen sometimes but every single of them are examined and the reason searched for FA. If it is not found we chance the detector. NC and Single EOL's loops are both prohibited in our company. ONLY DEOL an ID is acceptable. If I quote somebodys posts i mention about it. I even try to put the link to original post if it appears to be under some other topic. If someone already put my thoughts in written format why should i bother everybody with same thought written in my engrish??? As everybody must have noticed, putting my thoughts too much causes an about Finnish and British regulations so I try to avoid writing about things that may cause senseless and time consuming chitchat about regulations unless they are common like EN - norms. It would be very kind from you, jb-eye, to tell us what post I was hijacking so I can return the honor back to the original writer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted October 22, 2004 Share Posted October 22, 2004 But how many of you will go to a survey and when told. I have a dog., offer pet detectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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