BBSS Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Firstly excuse the later abbreviated title. Ok i am soon to be doing an install on a Galaxy G3. I previously posted asking about the Grouping and it came to light about the setting logic. In this instance i believe it to be a little different. The site has 5 floors on each floor 2 detectors (offices not protected just a common lobby) 1 common entrance/exit door and 2 reception (entrance) detectors. What the intention is to make the last person out set the whole common lobby (Floor's 1-5 + reception) We are going to issue a batch of fobs (I believe, hasn't been confirmed if fob or code) (system in Bells only) So for example floors 1-4 leave the premises in their own time and on passing the RKP in the reception lobby they present their Fob/code thus notifying the panel that a fob from each floor except 5 has been read. The last person from the 5th floor goes to leave presents their fob/code and the system proceeds to arm indicating to the user they are the last to leave. Can anyone advise as to what section of the programming i need to look into Regards Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goncall Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Firstly excuse the later abbreviated title.Ok i am soon to be doing an install on a Galaxy G3. I previously posted asking about the Grouping and it came to light about the setting logic. In this instance i believe it to be a little different. The site has 5 floors on each floor 2 detectors (offices not protected just a common lobby) 1 common entrance/exit door and 2 reception (entrance) detectors. What the intention is to make the last person out set the whole common lobby (Floor's 1-5 + reception) We are going to issue a batch of fobs (I believe, hasn't been confirmed if fob or code) (system in Bells only) So for example floors 1-4 leave the premises in their own time and on passing the RKP in the reception lobby they present their Fob/code thus notifying the panel that a fob from each floor except 5 has been read. The last person from the 5th floor goes to leave presents their fob/code and the system proceeds to arm indicating to the user they are the last to leave. Can anyone advise as to what section of the programming i need to look into Regards Ben what if floor 5 goes out first,your gonna get problems with this one,what if staff from floors 1-4 dont present fob to rkp,you might have to set up dummy groups,do floor 5 pass thru detection on floors 1-4,timed auto set might be better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 you need to enable groups and setting login on groups say group1 is the lobby/reception then groups 2 - 5 will be each floor set aech user up to have rights on Group1 and the relevent floor group. enable setting logic so that 1 wont set until 2-5 are then when the last person sets as they leave it will arm the floor group and group1 securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBSS Posted February 6, 2009 Author Share Posted February 6, 2009 forgot to mention they want the whole system unset when the first person enters. If floor 5 leave first then assuming the present their fob then thats them aknowledged on the system. If 1-4 don't present a fob then that's where the issue is. I'm installaing on behalf of a company so just want to clear all the angles before the day of install. there will be detection on every floor so 5 would pass detection on 4,3,2,1 Recently i done a setup when 4 groups were set on the last being set it proceeded to set a common lobby. But not sure how we'll do this one. With the above was ok because each office was SET doing this i dont't think we can group the detection on the floor because we can't arm that detection/group because for example if 4 left and armed then 5 would pass. See when floor 5 leave and go down to the only RKP which is in the reception lobby they are presenting their fob to register their departure from the premises one thing that i have thought is if person form floor 5 leaves but wasn't the last and another person from floor 5 leaves would they undo the initial akowledgement of the previous floor 5 user? sorry if the above is confusing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 you cant do that, how is the system to know that sometimes you want all on/off, aqnd sometimes you dont. Only way is to allow all users group choice and pick what to set and unset each time. Fraught with danger and they will get it wrong all the time. IMO they either want it all on and all off, or grouped securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goncall Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 forgot to mention they want the whole system unset when the first person enters.If floor 5 leave first then assuming the present their fob then thats them aknowledged on the system. If 1-4 don't present a fob then that's where the issue is. I'm installaing on behalf of a company so just want to clear all the angles before the day of install. there will be detection on every floor so 5 would pass detection on 4,3,2,1 Recently i done a setup when 4 groups were set on the last being set it proceeded to set a common lobby. But not sure how we'll do this one. With the above was ok because each office was SET doing this i dont't think we can group the detection on the floor because we can't arm that detection/group because for example if 4 left and armed then 5 would pass. See when floor 5 leave and go down to the only RKP which is in the reception lobby they are presenting their fob to register their departure from the premises one thing that i have thought is if person form floor 5 leaves but wasn't the last and another person from floor 5 leaves would they undo the initial akowledgement of the previous floor 5 user? sorry if the above is confusing the problem with sites like this no one is responsible for setting the alarm,even if you set one floor others are gonna trip it when passing,auto set for me on this one with pre-warn buzzer telling the last man to get out,give each a fob to unset,tell them use the fob only if you here the enrty tone.i can see plenty income from user error on this one.. how many offices on each floor,are they the same staff on each floor etc? can you describe the set uo of the building in more detail..is it a bussiness centre type of building Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBSS Posted February 6, 2009 Author Share Posted February 6, 2009 you cant do that, how is the system to know that sometimes you want all on/off, aqnd sometimes you dont.Only way is to allow all users group choice and pick what to set and unset each time. Fraught with danger and they will get it wrong all the time. IMO they either want it all on and all off, or grouped But if a user from floor 4 was to set the detection on their landing then there is the risk of floor 5 passing and tripping floor 4 so grouping that way would work "auto set for me on this" If doing the auto set would you be able to get the alarm to auto set once its seen the last fob assuming that for example floors 1-4 have presented their fob (if they haven't its a whole nest of issues) but assuming they all have would the system recognise that it had been presented a fob from floors 1-4 so when a fob from floor 5 was presented at the reception keypad it would proceed to set. it sounds like the grouping fobs. On the setting logic you tell the system ok so when these zone groups are set proceed to set another group i.e. groups 5-3 are set user from group 2 leaves the building setting group 2 when group 2 is set it then autpo sets grup 1 (group 1 being a common lobby as an example) So you would have to try and do that with fobs when a fob from floors 1-4 is presented do not set the system until a fob from floor 5 is presented. From my understanding it is not possible to group fobs like this. Just trying to get clarification before i my case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 oh so these detectors are on the stairs? well your gonna need setting logic all the way down, ie 4 cant set till 5 is, 3 cant set until 4 7 5 is etc etc. think your heading for a world of trouble here. You need entry timers and doors to start these to comply with 50131 anyway so i think this system needs a serious rethink. securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBSS Posted February 6, 2009 Author Share Posted February 6, 2009 the problem with sites like this no one is responsible for setting the alarm,even if you set one floor others are gonna trip it when passing,auto set for me on this one with pre-warn buzzer telling the last man to get out,give each a fob to unset,tell them use the fob only if you here the enrty tone.i can see plenty income from user error on this one.. how many offices on each floor,are they the same staff on each floor etc? can you describe the set uo of the building in more detail..is it a bussiness centre type of building Unsure of the exact layout yet I am a sub contractor and have been asked to do this job next week. I will be meeting the project guy on site and run through the job then. I just want to do it right and aid the slating some subbies get by half programmed panels. All i know is thats its 5 floors all different companies. Thats how i want to treat it then that is the worse case scenario. So i can't do a grouping of the detection on each floor and arm that because there's risk of someone from the floor above passing the armed zone. It has to be done with recognition of a fob from what ever floor and when it has seen fobs from all the floors (1-5) then it would auto set the common lobby. But as far as i'm aware you can't programme the panel to acknowledge fobs in that way you can only do it with the zone groups oh so these detectors are on the stairs?well your gonna need setting logic all the way down, ie 4 cant set till 5 is, 3 cant set until 4 7 5 is etc etc. think your heading for a world of trouble here. You need entry timers and doors to start these to comply with 50131 anyway so i think this system needs a serious rethink. that's what i'm trying to find out if it's not compatible then i can say to the project guy why it wont work. If i use setting logic then ifrom what your saying i need to group each landing (only detection on the landings) but if i used setting logic and quote you on , ie 4 cant set till 5 then 4 would have to be ARMED but it can't be armed because floor 5 could pass through it? capiche?? I see what your saying i programmed a panel the other week with setting logic but was actual units that had entry doors and rkp's etc. Going in is the easy part first one in triggers the entry timer and presents a fob that will then unset the whole system! But leaving is a different ball game and a world of trouble i agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 you can do it the way you want. Just use dummy groups, ie have all the groups per floor and arm them (but dont put any circuits in them) then put all your circuits into group 1. Last one out sets the lot. securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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