DamienGiles Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Well everything has arrived - except the panel itself but that's due to arrive later. The bell box looks well shiny. Anyway, when I had some quotes round, they all looked to install the PIRs in the same place as I thought. After measuring out wirelengths etc last night and taking up some floor boards, I got wondering. Is it a good idea to have a PIR covering half an area that another PIR is covering? Take my living room for example. I have placed one in there that will cover the living room / dining room. Just off that is the front door divided by a original wall before we knocked the rooms through - to give a bit of privacy to whomever was in the living room from the person at the door. I've located a PIR on top of the door also as a failsafe for the mag connector on the door. This PIR also covers about 40% of the main livingroom and dining room. Whilst this doesn't initially appear to be a negative feature as it acts to make an area covered by a redundant PIR - what happens when you're trying to diagnoise problems or (other reasons escape me) - is it really a problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Well everything has arrived - except the panel itself but that's due to arrive later. The bell box looks well shiny.Anyway, when I had some quotes round, they all looked to install the PIRs in the same place as I thought. After measuring out wirelengths etc last night and taking up some floor boards, I got wondering. Is it a good idea to have a PIR covering half an area that another PIR is covering? Take my living room for example. I have placed one in there that will cover the living room / dining room. Just off that is the front door divided by a original wall before we knocked the rooms through - to give a bit of privacy to whomever was in the living room from the person at the door. I've located a PIR on top of the door also as a failsafe for the mag connector on the door. This PIR also covers about 40% of the main livingroom and dining room. Whilst this doesn't initially appear to be a negative feature as it acts to make an area covered by a redundant PIR - what happens when you're trying to diagnoise problems or (other reasons escape me) - is it really a problem? hi, pro companies will use often detectors of different technologies if the area's overlap on cARC systems, i.e. one will be a pir the other a dual-tec. but with your system not a need to concider. your main concern is what will happen when you set and part set for bedtime? if the lounge pir is looking at the front door it will likely need to be an access zone not a 12 hour zone, it will also likely need to be a exit/entry zone in part set, some panels have this feature or you make it an exit/entry zone - not the best solution though as any intrussion into the lounge 1st will start the entry timer allowing more time to swipe your plasma before the bells sound. depends wher your keypad is, as you could concider masking the door out of the lounge pirs coverage if it will not loose the bulk of the lounge area doing so, but i'd need to see the layout to make any really acurate comments. best you refer to the guides that come with the pir's regarding loctions and coverage etc. regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamienGiles Posted July 11, 2008 Author Share Posted July 11, 2008 alan, thanks for your reply. good news firstly is that i've purchased an additional panel to locate in the bedroom - this will be to partset at night and show the zones on the lcd when the alarm is triggered to see whether it is inside or ouside (garage) the house. The lounge PIR doesn't cover the front door but the door pir covers the louge. Which brings me to my next question. I can locate the keypad under the door pir so it's out of the way of the lounge pir thus avoiding both the part setting at night (should I come home in a drunken stu) and avoid having to put the lounge pir on a delay. I been told by a - not an alarm installer - friend that the keypad shouldn't be located by the front door - I can't see why not? The alarm company were going to install it there. Is there any reason why not to locate this by the door - such as being accessible by a long stick through the letter box or something silly? I will probably locate the PIR from the top landing over looking the stairs to the next corner as when I walk through the front door it might be picked up from the top landing - possibly - will look into this. I apologise about this question - when you're fitting pirs, apart from the intructions given in the manual, is there a tool (such as a laser device) that shows angles and coverage zone (for e.g. when masking)? or is it done from experience and eyesight? I ask this as I havn't read the manual for the PIR yet which will no doubt help but I'm curious how I could tell whether the PIR (for e.g.) at the top of the stairs would trigger when you walk through the front door without installing it and drilling it through the ceiling first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 alan,thanks for your reply. good news firstly is that i've purchased an additional panel to locate in the bedroom - this will be to partset at night and show the zones on the lcd when the alarm is triggered to see whether it is inside or ouside (garage) the house. The lounge PIR doesn't cover the front door but the door pir covers the louge. Which brings me to my next question. I can locate the keypad under the door pir so it's out of the way of the lounge pir thus avoiding both the part setting at night (should I come home in a drunken stu) and avoid having to put the lounge pir on a delay. I been told by a - not an alarm installer - friend that the keypad shouldn't be located by the front door - I can't see why not? The alarm company were going to install it there. Is there any reason why not to locate this by the door - such as being accessible by a long stick through the letter box or something silly? I will probably locate the PIR from the top landing over looking the stairs to the next corner as when I walk through the front door it might be picked up from the top landing - possibly - will look into this. I apologise about this question - when you're fitting pirs, apart from the intructions given in the manual, is there a tool (such as a laser device) that shows angles and coverage zone (for e.g. when masking)? or is it done from experience and eyesight? I ask this as I havn't read the manual for the PIR yet which will no doubt help but I'm curious how I could tell whether the PIR (for e.g.) at the top of the stairs would trigger when you walk through the front door without installing it and drilling it through the ceiling first? it's fairly common in homes to have the rkp by the front door as many act as a personal attack button so you don't really want that half way down the hall usually. it also reduces the entry time needed (so her indoors is less disturbed on your cats night out), and if the door contact or hall pir is taken from the keypad it reduces cabling. less common in shops/offices as customer tampering/viewing has to be considered, and one of the 'against' reasons is ease of seeing your code being input by nosy persons from outside, but nobody is going to shoot you either way . regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DamienGiles Posted July 11, 2008 Author Share Posted July 11, 2008 thanks for your comments. food for thought. I don't think I need to worry about tampering except when the place is being burgled for which I hope the panel can stand up to such an attack at least until the bell sounds. I don't think by locating it on the opposite side of the wall around the corner will help much as it would mean as you say, that I would have to set the lounge PIR to delayed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rulland Posted July 11, 2008 Share Posted July 11, 2008 Also in days gone by-if the alarm was set/unset it would show on the keypad-any joe public looking through a window adjacent to the keypad could see if the alarm was set. These days to conform to EN50131-there should be no indication on the setting device as to whether the alarm system is in the set or unset state-the information becomes visual only once a valid user code has been entered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Also in days gone by-if the alarm was set/unset it would show on the keypad-any joe public looking through a window adjacent to the keypad could see if the alarm was set.These days to conform to EN50131-there should be no indication on the setting device as to whether the alarm system is in the set or unset state-the information becomes visual only once a valid user code has been entered. as an aside, old systems you did not know if they were set, so in houses when setting downstairs only the client would be advised to put a remminder on the stairs to warn everyone the alarm was part set all well and good. but the company i worked for had several fall over a vase, books or towels left at the top of the stairs "so you could not miss them if the alarm was on" in the night if going down in the morning or to the loo in the dark, many ending up in hospital - so in practice not always a good thing having no display regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magpye Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 Also in days gone by-if the alarm was set/unset it would show on the keypad-any joe public looking through a window adjacent to the keypad could see if the alarm was set.These days to conform to EN50131-there should be no indication on the setting device as to whether the alarm system is in the set or unset state-the information becomes visual only once a valid user code has been entered. But this is DIY, he can do what he likes ! Someone told me I was ignorant and apathetic, I don't know what that means, nor do I care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 But this is DIY, he can do what he likes ! very true, and his panel may well blank out anyway if newer EN software installed, just trying to explain the whys and wherefore's as his mate mentioned his concern about keypads being by the front door. regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anguscanplay Posted July 12, 2008 Share Posted July 12, 2008 But this is DIY, he can do what he likes ! he can, but theres nothing wrong with also doing it RIGHT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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