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I know that this is a fairly basic question but would appreciate assistance. In order to hide the wires beneath floorboards, I disconnected a 6-core window sensor cable at a junction box. Only on refitting did I spot that one terminal was common to two coloured wires and, of course... I have no idea which two.

It's an Optima plus 2, with Red/Black/Green/Yellow/White/Blue cable. Is there a standard arrangement, or can I test each one to determine?

Thanks.

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help us out here what coloured wire, goes to where at the panel.

and also what colours go where to the sensor and what are the terminals marked at the sensor.

other than this info we would be guessing

Kevin Scott. Owner of KK Alarms...... Installation .. Service .. Repair ...... Thoughout.. Northumberland and North Tyneside ..... Tel:01670 361948 (call diverted after 15 seconds) or 07947444114

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Reminds me of the Sparky rhyme.

Red to red, black to black, blue to bits!

Bit out of date with the new colours now, like me!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Life is like a box of chocolates, some bugger always gets the nice ones!

My Amateur Radio Forum

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tad late i know, but if you ever do this again cut each wire (one at a time) leaving a small portion of the coloured sleeving. that way you know where they all came from B)

if professionally installed then each engineer and every company usually have their own preferred colour scheme, but if a diy fit well i hope your God is on yur side :fear:

you could open another detector if you have one or a pir and have a look, as most likely (but no promises) the same code is used for each detector, at least the 12 volt power will likely be the same so you have a starting point at least - post the colours in a pir along with what you thought the window detector used.

you need to take care as shorting out the power to the detector will likely blow a fuse and resulting in the external siren operating from lack of charging (if wird correctly)

regs

alan

If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!

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I simply didn't notice, when disconnecting, that the middle two terminals were linked - so it never occurred to me that there might be a problem later.

Right, I've had a look in the detector - Red 12v Black 0v

Green/Yellow Tamper

White/Blue Alarm

Of course, it's just possible that the linked terminal in the junction box wasn't used for more than one wire, there is another single terminal spare.

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I simply didn't notice, when disconnecting, that the middle two terminals were linked - so it never occurred to me that there might be a problem later.

Right, I've had a look in the detector - Red 12v Black 0v

Green/Yellow Tamper

White/Blue Alarm

Of course, it's just possible that the linked terminal in the junction box wasn't used for more than one wire, there is another single terminal spare.

have you got any contacts like the one on the front door that is the same that you could carefully remove and check out?

"If you carry your childhood with you, you never become old. Why rush to end life when happiness is in the blissfulness of childhood innocence."

"We all die, the goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will."

07475071344

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Everywhere else uses PIRs, this is the back upstairs window. I've got tenants starting Monday, so need to get this fixed. I can connect all the wires to the same colour at the junction box; what I need to know is whether there are two wires (from the detector connections I noted above) that need to be joined - I'm pretty sure the linked terminal was used before I unwired it.

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Everywhere else uses PIRs, this is the back upstairs window. I've got tenants starting Monday, so need to get this fixed. I can connect all the wires to the same colour at the junction box; what I need to know is whether there are two wires (from the detector connections I noted above) that need to be joined - I'm pretty sure the linked terminal was used before I unwired it.

i would have a guess at tamper been green/yellow so these would need to be put together in a brass type screw on their own and the terminals that are joined in the contact need a white on one end and blue on the other

ill await a flaming :ninja:

"If you carry your childhood with you, you never become old. Why rush to end life when happiness is in the blissfulness of childhood innocence."

"We all die, the goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will."

07475071344

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Guest anguscanplay
i would have a guess at tamper been green/yellow so these would need to be put together in a brass type screw on their own and the terminals that are joined in the contact need a white on one end and blue on the other

ill await a flaming :ninja:

you`ll get one if you carry on LOL - it` a viper type device, red and black should be power (test em at the joint box with a test meter) then it`s a case of shorting different colors out till you get a clear signal at the panel - work it all out from there by elimination, chances are either the tamper or the circuit were disconnected

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you`ll get one if you carry on LOL - it` a viper type device, red and black should be power (test em at the joint box with a test meter) then it`s a case of shorting different colors out till you get a clear signal at the panel - work it all out from there by elimination

:whistle::bruce_h4h:

"If you carry your childhood with you, you never become old. Why rush to end life when happiness is in the blissfulness of childhood innocence."

"We all die, the goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will."

07475071344

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welcome to the forum sats old boy - knew you had a sense of humour

thankyou

how system q :whistle:

B)

"If you carry your childhood with you, you never become old. Why rush to end life when happiness is in the blissfulness of childhood innocence."

"We all die, the goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will."

07475071344

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Everywhere else uses PIRs, this is the back upstairs window. I've got tenants starting Monday, so need to get this fixed. I can connect all the wires to the same colour at the junction box; what I need to know is whether there are two wires (from the detector connections I noted above) that need to be joined - I'm pretty sure the linked terminal was used before I unwired it.

given the urgency and its part of your tenancy agreement, imo you need to bite the bullet and call an engineer to wire it properly and service the system.

any advice given on kit unseen could be misleading or worse plain wrong. if they are burgled via this window, and nothing happens somebody will have to pay and who needs a liability action to defend?.

regs

alan

If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!

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you`ll get one if you carry on LOL - it` a viper type device, red and black should be power (test em at the joint box with a test meter) then it`s a case of shorting different colors out till you get a clear signal at the panel - work it all out from there by elimination, chances are either the tamper or the circuit were disconnected

Angus I'm trying to apply some simple electrical circuit logic to this. Surely the "viper" needs 6 wires if it's "done properly", 2 each for power, alarm and tamper. All kept separate!

Now, if the device had its own zone (who knows?) then the only pair that could have been fiddled with is tamper or it just wouldn't work at all. Which of course would make the tamper not work properly, mind you does the OP know if it did work beforehand?

NOW is the junction box just a cable join or is it feeding more than one device, in which case it could be feeding multiple power connections (+12v or 0v) and the tamper would loop in and out, assuming it's a global tamper (likely on that panel?). So with 2 devices the tamper would need 3 terminals!

I think to get an answer the OP needs to tell us a bit more about what is connected to the junction box - maybe a diagram? :whistle:

Or, as suggested, get an engineer in as sharing a terminal means something was wrong in the first place...

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A viper type device? Now I'm alarmed - wish the house was.

Remember: these are the connections to the detector - Red 12v Black 0v Green/Yellow Tamper White/Blue Alarm

Red/Black definitely is power. Simply, do either of the other two pairs need to be joined between detector and panel?

Sorry to sound slow on the uptake, but I'm only a simple soul.

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Guest anguscanplay
I simply didn't notice, when disconnecting, that the middle two terminals were linked - so it never occurred to me that there might be a problem later.

Right, I've had a look in the detector - Red 12v Black 0v

Green/Yellow Tamper

White/Blue Alarm

Of course, it's just possible that the linked terminal in the junction box wasn't used for more than one wire, there is another single terminal spare.

Angus I'm trying to apply some simple electrical circuit logic to this. Surely the "viper" needs 6 wires if it's "done properly", 2 each for power, alarm and tamper. All kept separate!

Now, if the device had its own zone (who knows?) then the only pair that could have been fiddled with is tamper or it just wouldn't work at all. Which of course would make the tamper not work properly, mind you does the OP know if it did work beforehand?

NOW is the junction box just a cable join or is it feeding more than one device, in which case it could be feeding multiple power connections (+12v or 0v) and the tamper would loop in and out, assuming it's a global tamper (likely on that panel?). So with 2 devices the tamper would need 3 terminals!

I think to get an answer the OP needs to tell us a bit more about what is connected to the junction box - maybe a diagram? :whistle:

Or, as suggested, get an engineer in as sharing a terminal means somethiong was wrong in the first place...

nope it`s a viper type detector 12v and 0v terminals see - as I said chances are the tamper switch was shorted out (maybe even the alarm pair cause we all know how problematic viper type detectors are) often we`ll use one side of the connection terminals to hold em - its easy to do just meter out the power then the rest will follow

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A viper type device? Now I'm alarmed - wish the house was.

Remember: these are the connections to the detector - Red 12v Black 0v Green/Yellow Tamper White/Blue Alarm

Red/Black definitely is power. Simply, do either of the other two pairs need to be joined between detector and panel?

Sorry to sound slow on the uptake, but I'm only a simple soul.

does the sensor/device look like this : ......................http://www.screwfix.com/sfd/i/cat/01/p4111501_l.jpg

"If you carry your childhood with you, you never become old. Why rush to end life when happiness is in the blissfulness of childhood innocence."

"We all die, the goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will."

07475071344

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It is a zone on its own and the junction is simply a cable connector. All was working before I disconnected it and will work if I omit the zone. The connections to the device are as described above, it's just the "cable join" where I think that two different coloured wires (obviously not the power) were joined through a common pair of terminals. The device inside says DA Systems (DAD1002) and has a central LED.

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Guest anguscanplay
It is a zone on its own and the junction is simply a cable connector. All was working before I disconnected it and will work if I omit the zone. The connections to the device are as described above, it's just the "cable join" where I think that two different coloured wires (obviously not the power) were joined through a common pair of terminals. The device inside says DA Systems (DAD1002) and has a central LED.

right listen -

tape the power pair out of harms way, put the panel on walk test, short out blue and yellow then green and white - if that zone shows clear then unshort one pair your looking for the ones that trigger the panel, they go into cct the others go into tamper or leave em shorted out

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Thank you everyone - I'll just have to resort to trial and error. As I said, the zone was working before I disconnected it - I can connect each coloured wire to the same colour (this is, after all simply a repair or extension to a cable) All I wanted was to know if two coloured wires were supposed to be joined at this point. I don't know what a walk test is, or what cct means, I do know which colours go to tamper and which to alarm and which to power, so I'll have to try all combinations (except live) and see what happens.

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Thank you everyone - I'll just have to resort to trial and error. As I said, the zone was working before I disconnected it - I can connect each coloured wire to the same colour (this is, after all simply a repair or extension to a cable) All I wanted was to know if two coloured wires were supposed to be joined at this point. I don't know what a walk test is, or what cct means, I do know which colours go to tamper and which to alarm and which to power, so I'll have to try all combinations (except live) and see what happens.

OK, but trial and error shouldn't be needed.

If it "worked" you had power - that's 2 separate wires, and you appear to know what they are. Join them wrong and you blow a fuse! If it "worked" the alarm circuit used 2 wires also and you know what they are too.

That assumes that by "worked" you mean you could bang the window and set the alarm off when set. If you just meant you could set the alarm that's potentially a different problem entirely. :angry:

The tamper SHOULD use 2 wires and you know what they are at the device. A tamper will trigger the alarm if the circuit is broken. So if the tamper wires are joined in the junction box the alarm will still work, but the wires and/or device could be disabled by an intruder without you knowing.

You should be able to work it out from that. Chances are it's the tamper circuit that's sharing a terminal.

As Topalarms said it was probably someone taking a shortcut on the wiring.

Given, if I read you correctly, you're saying this is a rented property with new tenants arriving soon surely a professional maintenance contract would be required anyway?

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