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What Alarm To Install In A Garage?


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Hello all,

I'm fitting an alarm for a customer who wants a separate but cheap system for his garage. His last garage alarm was a B&Q battery operated unit.

As the garage has power, anyone got a suggestion for a suitable cheap mains powered unit to cope with up and over door and side upvc entry door (- assuming one pir and two contacts). I was leaning towards the texecom V8 but surely there is something cheaper and suitable?

Any suggestions??

There's no substitute for experience .......... so all opinions welcome!

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Hello all,

I'm fitting an alarm for a customer who wants a separate but cheap system for his garage. His last garage alarm was a B&Q battery operated unit.

As the garage has power, anyone got a suggestion for a suitable cheap mains powered unit to cope with up and over door and side upvc entry door (- assuming one pir and two contacts). I was leaning towards the texecom V8 but surely there is something cheaper and suitable?

Any suggestions??

Wouldnt it be cheaper to fit a RKP and a few detectors in the garage connected to the main house alarm ??

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Guest anguscanplay
Hello all,

I'm fitting an alarm for a customer who wants a separate but cheap system for his garage. His last garage alarm was a B&Q battery operated unit.

As the garage has power, anyone got a suggestion for a suitable cheap mains powered unit to cope with up and over door and side upvc entry door (- assuming one pir and two contacts). I was leaning towards the texecom V8 but surely there is something cheaper and suitable?

Any suggestions??

hi welcome to the forum , pray tell , just what is your occupation ?

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hi welcome to the forum , pray tell , just what is your occupation ?

What a patronizing reply.

May I answer for newguy,

pray tell, what business is it of yours?

Someone told me I was ignorant and apathetic, I don't know what that means, nor do I care.

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What a patronizing reply.

May I answer for newguy,

pray tell, what business is it of yours?

Well, it might help people understand his skill set for a start and reply accordingly, seems reasonable to me .....

He did say "I'm fitting an alarm for a customer" so he could be an alarm engineer(?), electrician, builder or handyman for example.

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Guest anguscanplay
What a patronizing reply.

May I answer for newguy,

pray tell, what business is it of yours?

hey i`m just asking so I could tailor any advise to the o/p skill level

yep i`m patronising but and its a big but if the guy is asking what panel to fit in a garage for " a customer " chances are he aint a regd sparks or competant security installer and thats before we get to the requirments to comply with part P of the building regulations.We have all heard the " its DIY so rules dont apply " attitude you seem so keen to push but if its paid for it aint diy is it ?

So is he a sparks,alarm installer,IT consulatant,diy handyman,builder,gate installer,carpet fitter or what as only two of them will be able to self certiyfy a garage install.

Or i could have just answered " the one the local NSI / SSAIB installer specifies " but that would have just been no help

Angus

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What a patronizing reply.

May I answer for newguy,

pray tell, what business is it of yours?

Helpful as ever i see.

A little background info allows for a more specific answer. So, we await your suggestion with eager anticipation.

Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional

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Hello guys,

Surprised at comments in banter so far but thank you for replys. Had internet trouble hence delay. I am a newly qualified alarm installer and only done half a dozen jobs to date.

Customer requires a separate system from house and garage outbuilding is someway from the home anyway. There is power to garage (recently rewired) and no sink/water facility. I do not believe installing small system here would consitute notifiable work under building regs so Part P is not appropriate is it? (power source is main dwelling and unswitched fused spur would be added to existing ring).

So now you all have the background (..... oh, shoe size 9 incidentally) - what small mains powered system could anyone recommend for a pre-cast concrete garage with up and over door??

cheers!

:)

There's no substitute for experience .......... so all opinions welcome!

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Hello guys,

Surprised at comments in banter so far but thank you for replys. Had internet trouble hence delay. I am a newly qualified alarm installer and only done half a dozen jobs to date.

Customer requires a separate system from house and garage outbuilding is someway from the home anyway. There is power to garage (recently rewired) and no sink/water facility. I do not believe installing small system here would consitute notifiable work under building regs so Part P is not appropriate is it? (power source is main dwelling and unswitched fused spur would be added to existing ring).

So now you all have the background (..... oh, shoe size 9 incidentally) - what small mains powered system could anyone recommend for a pre-cast concrete garage with up and over door??

cheers!

:)

Hi mate

best cheep panel for your needs will be a scantronic 9448+ with on board keyboard, better looking than a veritas, have fitted loads of these in garages, just make sure you fit r/s contacts on up&over, surface on side door & DT not a pir :)

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Guest anguscanplay
Hello guys,

. I am a newly qualified alarm installer and only done half a dozen jobs to date.

Customer requires a separate system from house and garage outbuilding is someway from the home anyway. There is power to garage (recently rewired) and no sink/water facility. I do not believe installing small system here would consitute notifiable work under building regs so Part P is not appropriate is it? (power source is main dwelling and unswitched fused spur would be added to existing ring).

cheers!

:)

Hi Newguy where did you get the qualification ? if they have given you that advise about when Part P is applicable ? it can be summed up quite neatly as " if the work is in a special location - kitchen , bathroom , OUTSIDE then part p will apply "

the only way you would get away with not certifying to comply with part p ( needs minor works instead if your fitting fixed equipment btw ) is to use a socket and plug outlet or upgrade the control unit and fit radio.

might be a time to ask yourself as a " newly qualified " alarm installer are garage additions really the way you want to go ?

As to which panel - use any it makes no difference does it ?

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Hi mate

best cheep panel for your needs will be a scantronic 9448+ with on board keyboard, better looking than a veritas, have fitted loads of these in garages, just make sure you fit r/s contacts on up&over, surface on side door & DT not a pir :)

Thanks for ALL response. regarding other comments, I still believe it should be non-notifiable under IEE part P regs and that in this instance the detached garage does not constitute outdoors. I have raised the query with the locaL BCO for THEIR INTERPRETATION as we all know theirs is the only view that actually matters at the end of the day.

:)

There's no substitute for experience .......... so all opinions welcome!

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Guest anguscanplay
Thanks for ALL response. regarding other comments, I still believe it should be non-notifiable under IEE part P regs and that in this instance the detached garage does not constitute outdoors. I have raised the query with the locaL BCO for THEIR INTERPRETATION as we all know theirs is the only view that actually matters at the end of the day.

:)

er actually newguy they probably know less than the rest of us - find out from the IEE like the rest of us did would be a better route but pray by what argument makes you think it isnt outside ? it was explained to us by our regulator the NSI that outside is anything that is not within the footprint of the original structure ( so an attatched garage wouldnt need to be but a detatched would ) more like your hoping that it isnt or you cant proceed ?

the question about who " qualified " you wasnt a rhetorical one - it may be they have given you a lot more " misquoted " advice

non intended ( yet )

Angus

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er actually newguy they probably know less than the rest of us - find out from the IEE like the rest of us did would be a better route but pray by what argument makes you think it isnt outside ? it was explained to us by our regulator the NSI that outside is anything that is not within the footprint of the original structure ( so an attatched garage wouldnt need to be but a detatched would ) more like your hoping that it isnt or you cant proceed ?

the question about who " qualified " you wasnt a rhetorical one - it may be they have given you a lot more " misquoted " advice

non intended ( yet )

Angus

hi Angus,

just to throw a minor spanner in the NSI works (you know me lol! :rolleyes: ), if the garage was built at the same time as the main house, it would then likely to be under the original planning permission. and if so would be part of the 'original footprint of the build'. according to 'your NSI' interpretation also not then considered for part 'P' surely?.

anyway, best way is go radio, upgrade the panel to a Gardtec G595 with vo-com built-in, and as you have the g-receiver buy a 4 button fob and program for part set 2 to set garage alone. fast simple and effective.

if the client's a cheapskate and won't go for it, get another client imo.

regs

alan

If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!

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hi Angus,

just to throw a minor spanner in the NSI works (you know me lol! :rolleyes: ), if the garage was built at the same time as the main house, it would then likely to be under the original planning permission. and if so would be part of the 'original footprint of the build'. according to 'your NSI' interpretation also not then considered for part 'P' surely?.

anyway, best way is go radio, upgrade the panel to a Gardtec G595 with vo-com built-in, and as you have the g-receiver buy a 4 button fob and program for part set 2 to set garage alone. fast simple and effective.

if the client's a cheapskate and won't go for it, get another client imo.

regs

alan

or just fit a nova reciver to the existing system for wireless detectors, if there are spare zones.

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Guest anguscanplay
hi Angus,

just to throw a minor spanner in the NSI works (you know me lol! :rolleyes: ), if the garage was built at the same time as the main house, it would then likely to be under the original planning permission. and if so would be part of the 'original footprint of the build'. according to 'your NSI' interpretation also not then considered for part 'P' surely?.

anyway, best way is go radio, upgrade the panel to a Gardtec G595 with vo-com built-in, and as you have the g-receiver buy a 4 button fob and program for part set 2 to set garage alone. fast simple and effective.

if the client's a cheapskate and won't go for it, get another client imo.

regs

alan

okay i`ll clarify " within the structure foot print " point been that even if the garage had been built with the house ,in a misguided effort to clean up the frankly scary electrical installations in the uk anything outside the walls needs to be part p certified

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okay i`ll clarify " within the structure foot print " point been that even if the garage had been built with the house ,in a misguided effort to clean up the frankly scary electrical installations in the uk anything outside the walls needs to be part p certified

Your right the garage comes under Part P regs. Although the alarm itself would not come under it being 12vdc, any electrical work carried out must comply with P regs.

I've just complted the course and have this on good authority.

The older I get, the faster I was.

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Guest anguscanplay
Your right the garage comes under Part P regs. Although the alarm itself would not come under it being 12vdc, any electrical work carried out must comply with P regs.

I've just complted the course and have this on good authority.

thanks for that

it really is that simple - if the cable leaves the fabric of the primary dwelling and doesnt terminate immediatly in a device fixed to the aformentioned fabric then its classed as outside and therfore within the requirments of Part P the fact in this case its got a roof and four walls round it is irrelevant

so back to our question - who " qualified " you - then we can give the correct advise - no ?

Angus

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thanks for that

it really is that simple - if the cable leaves the fabric of the primary dwelling and doesnt terminate immediatly in a device fixed to the aformentioned fabric then its classed as outside and therfore within the requirments of Part P the fact in this case its got a roof and four walls round it is irrelevant

so back to our question - who " qualified " you - then we can give the correct advise - no ?

Angus

Hi guys,

Thanks again for all the advice to date. To address the two main themes here:

1. Qualification was City & Guilds 1852 Syllabus run by Preston College, Tutor being a practicing installer with 20 years experience and full electrician background.

2. Local Building Control Officer has confirmed:

'that the proposed works to the garage are not notifiable under Approved Document P of the Building Regulations 2000.

Detached garages and sheds are not, as you have identified, special locations. Work to them need not be notified to Building Contol where the works consist of adding socket-outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit.'

My understanding was the Part P of building regs allows for additions of unswitched fused spur and subsequent 12V DC alarm installation as garage in on existing ring SOURCED by main dwelling (i.e. within a footprint). It appears allowable to procede! Welcome any further observations here.

Thanx

There's no substitute for experience .......... so all opinions welcome!

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Guest anguscanplay
Hi guys,

Thanks again for all the advice to date. To address the two main themes here:

1. Qualification was City & Guilds 1852 Syllabus run by Preston College, Tutor being a practicing installer with 20 years experience and full electrician background.

2. Local Building Control Officer has confirmed:

'that the proposed works to the garage are not notifiable under Approved Document P of the Building Regulations 2000.

Detached garages and sheds are not, as you have identified, special locations. Work to them need not be notified to Building Contol where the works consist of adding socket-outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit.'

My understanding was the Part P of building regs allows for additions of unswitched fused spur and subsequent 12V DC alarm installation as garage in on existing ring SOURCED by main dwelling (i.e. within a footprint). It appears allowable to procede! Welcome any further observations here.

Thanx

sorry newguy but your going to have to prove it as my BCO said exactly the opposite when i met him today

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hi all,

i wonder if we do not digress to far to much here?

albeit with the best intentions but in another thread an o/p asked what vans do we recommend? should we jump in and say it needs commercial insurance, a drivers license road fund license blah blah before we suggest a make and model?

i think it's enough to say they need to consider if part 'p' is relevant and to take proper advice advice based on a site visit, but then lets get on and address the question originally asked perhaps?

i'm not advocating ignoring the legalities, just the o/p is an adult and so old enough to check this out for themselves, we are mainly security engineers not moral guardians, so lets leave the church deal with that aspect :P

regs

alan

If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!

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Guest anguscanplay
hi all,

i wonder if we do not digress to far to much here?

albeit with the best intentions but in another thread an o/p asked what vans do we recommend? should we jump in and say it needs commercial insurance, a drivers license road fund license blah blah before we suggest a make and model?

i think it's enough to say they need to consider if part 'p' is relevant and to take proper advice advice based on a site visit, but then lets get on and address the question originally asked perhaps?

i'm not advocating ignoring the legalities, just the o/p is an adult and so old enough to check this out for themselves, we are mainly security engineers not moral guardians, so lets leave the church deal with that aspect :P

regs

alan

eh

the o/p asked for advise so we give him advise , now you seem to be contradicting yourself about notifying work ( polish sparks bad - uk sparks good is it ? )

the original question was not the kind of question a " qualified " engineer should / would / could ask , as i replied it doesnt really matter which panel does it - but any attemps to guide the newguy through into the real world and away from his college theory seem to be falling on deaf ears.

Best advise he will get this year - go and stand at the wholesalers counter for a day and listen to the old gits moaning - we really have been doing all this from before you were born !

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eh

the o/p asked for advise so we give him advise , now you seem to be contradicting yourself about notifying work ( polish sparks bad - uk sparks good is it ? )

the original question was not the kind of question a " qualified " engineer should / would / could ask , as i replied it doesnt really matter which panel does it - but any attemps to guide the newguy through into the real world and away from his college theory seem to be falling on deaf ears.

Best advise he will get this year - go and stand at the wholesalers counter for a day and listen to the old gits moaning - we really have been doing all this from before you were born !

hi angus,

no contradiction, just adapt the advice to this o/p to the question a bit closer is what i ask. i'm aware of part 'p' the ple is not and has been informed with not a care shown. he has been told not to pull any power cables through my routes or i will cut them out, but thats me and my methods attitude based on my experience and enforced with sheer bloody mindedness.

the o/p openly states he is newly qualified as an alarm installer (note, not an it wiz for a refreshing change), ok we don't know to what engineer sxkill level like grade 3, 2 or even 1. i know some big companies who give 14 days 'training' on the job and read a manual and your qualified grade 2 = unsupervised :rolleyes:

he obviously lack's experience, so lets cut him some slack as if he has been trained properly he will be aware of the part p worries.

and 'son' although i'm possibly now the oldest surviving member of the trade counter 'old git's' club' :P i do remember i was not born with a full catalog of alarm experience to fall back on, this o/p has sensibly asked advice from more experienced members, which i'd rather commend than he blast in system for his client which may not do the job the best or at all, and giving the trade a bad name.

regs

alan

If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!

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Guest anguscanplay
hi angus,

no contradiction, just adapt the advice to this o/p to the question a bit closer is what i ask. i'm aware of part 'p' the ple is not and has been informed with not a care shown. he has been told not to pull any power cables through my routes or i will cut them out, but thats me and my methods attitude based on my experience and enforced with sheer bloody mindedness.

the o/p openly states he is newly qualified as an alarm installer (note, not an it wiz for a refreshing change), ok we don't know to what engineer sxkill level like grade 3, 2 or even 1. i know some big companies who give 14 days 'training' on the job and read a manual and your qualified grade 2 = unsupervised :rolleyes:

he obviously lack's experience, so lets cut him some slack as if he has been trained properly he will be aware of the part p worries.

and 'son' although i'm possibly now the oldest surviving member of the trade counter 'old git's' club' :P i do remember i was not born with a full catalog of alarm experience to fall back on, this o/p has sensibly asked advice from more experienced members, which i'd rather commend than he blast in system for his client which may not do the job the best or at all, and giving the trade a bad name.

regs

alan

behave old man lol - any panel would do and the o/p has already decided he is going to ignore the regs on the mains side otherwise he wouldnt be quizzing if part p applies - which you yourself told a poster last week that it most definattly does

none meant

Angus

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behave old man lol - any panel would do and the o/p has already decided he is going to ignore the regs on the mains side otherwise he wouldnt be quizzing if part p applies - which you yourself told a poster last week that it most definattly does

none meant

Angus

might be a 'sticky' about part 'p' in the public area would save a lot of repetitiously typed advice, could do that for batteries too, as you just know how i hate repetition :)

i don't think the o/p can be fairly accused of ignoring the advice given or going his own way simply for asking for further verification from others. this is a discussion forum after all, and others reading the thread will may have learn't something too - maybe? :unsure: .

tbh this situation has to be viewed by a qualified person to make an accurate assessment, something i'd obviously urge the o/p to have done on pure safety grounds, but 'us' having made an advisory reference and dispensed our responsibility, should we then really continue to hammer it into the ground?

like i said we are not the moral wing of righteous vengeance for the law abiding nation, just guys experienced in intruder systems to varying degree's of ability.

regs

alan

If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!!

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tbh this situation has to be viewed by a qualified person to make an accurate assessment, something i'd obviously urge the o/p to have done on pure safety grounds,

I thought he said he went to see the local BCO who said Part P didn't apply...................

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