Guest wooke01 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Hi I wondered if i would post here to try and get some extra advice. We are thinking of getting a monitored system installed at home. We have had 4 estimates, we have 2 cats which live inside the house. The quotes varied wildly. we had 1xrecommendation for an fm electronics wirefree system with pet friendly pir's (gold nacoss) 1xrecommendation for perimiter protection, wired (National supplier) 1xrecommendation for visionic pet friendly sensors and tex panel. (SSAIB) 1xunbranded recommendation for pet friendly pirs which is the best kit? and what would be the most pet friendly (obviously permimeter) but does any of this kit perform any better than another? It would be installed by SSAIB or NIS / NACOSS. There doesnt seem to be a consistent answer so far... we dont want to pay out for the kit and then find out it doesnt meet our needs adn it doesnt get used. Also the quote we got from a national supplier seems to have suddenly got very aggressive where as the others seem to leave it up to us. I guess it is because monthly sales targets are being discussed... Also are wirefree being recommended as they can install it cheaper? Are pet friendly ok if installed correctly i.e. so the pets cannot get up high or near the pir's to trigger them? I am so confused... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antinode Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 Perimeter only protection on a monitored system If I were you I'd ditch the national, especially as they are being pushy with you. What other equipment did the installers quote? Panels etc? Maybe get a few more quotes from some more approved companies in your area? Trade Member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova-Security Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 I would be unlikely to recommend perimeter only. On a monitored system, i would how this company was going to get a confirmed signal sent ? www.nova-security.co.uk www.nsiapproved.co.uk No PMs please unless i know you or you are using this board with your proper name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Service Engineer Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 i would how this company was going to get a confirmed signal sent ? Contacts, Shocks, glass break, etc. ........................................................ Dave Partridge (Romec Service Engineer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 HiWe have had 4 estimates, we have 2 cats which live inside the house. The quotes varied wildly. which is the best kit? and what would be the most pet friendly (obviously permimeter) but does any of this kit perform any better than another? It would be installed by SSAIB or NIS / NACOSS. Also the quote we got from a national supplier seems to have suddenly got very aggressive where as the others seem to leave it up to us. I guess it is because monthly sales targets are being discussed... Also are wirefree being recommended as they can install it cheaper? Are pet friendly ok if installed correctly i.e. so the pets cannot get up high or near the pir's to trigger them? ho wooke01, as others have and will say the best way forward is to restrict the cats to a particular room, we also know cats do not respond to 'heel' when called, so it's not always a practical solution. radio equipment has come a long way especially in the last 3 or 4 years, dropping in price for the equipment making them more viable on a cost basis. wired systems are still preferred by most installers, as we have a wider choice of devices which can be used to tailor your system to your personal needs. that said with the modern vogue of wooden floors and minimal decoration hiding cables is a more skilled and thus labour intensive operation so is at a higher cost. pet ressistant detection is best concidered as better than nothing at all, as it may not 'catch' an intruder, it is slower to alarm than a standard detector as it has to processes the movement pattern and hieght of a moving heat source and compares it to a 'profile' to decide if its animal or human, the upside is they tend to be a bit more 'forgiving' if a window is accidentally left open. perimiter protection is more expensive to install, to do so succesfully will require each window and door to be contacted, backed up with glass break and/or vibration detectors, your budget will be balanced with your love of the freedom of the cats. without visiting your home to discuss properly the options direct advise is not available to you from our membership, but you should have had them exsplained to you by the sales reps. one things for sure, if you want Police response you will need to use an NSI or SSAIB registered company to istall the system, or the Police will nt be interested. regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wooke01 Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Hi, the company quoting permiter only also added a few door contacts to fire the confirmation alert. I forgot to add that one. We have sash windows and live in a victorian house. i guess the layout of the room helps too if we had pet detectors so the cats cannot get close to the PIR as well. What i was wondering is, is there any downside to havign vipers on the windows or the wireless version of vipers (impact detectors??)?? i am wondering if the permiter would be a better choice as may lead to less false alarms. is a complete fm system (4000E and PIRs) more expensive than a visionic PIR and texecom panel? i just wonder who is supplying the better kit and if instaling wireless just means they are being lazy and trying to cut installation costs. The national supplier state they dont do pet friendly for a reason and seem to be getting very agressive to get a sale (probably end of month sales figures i guess). additionally to throw another supplier into the pot, we are getting cotactes by //.National Installer.// resellers too now so undercut //.National Installer.// by 50%, can these be trusted? i guess they get a commission from //.National Installer.//, but even considering the fact that their monthly charges for monitoring are slightly higher we would have to live in our house and get it monitored for 10+ years to loose money by considering a reseller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Hi,the company quoting permiter only also added a few door contacts to fire the confirmation alert. I forgot to add that one. We have sash windows and live in a victorian house. well that helps us a bit! i guess the layout of the room helps too if we had pet detectors so the cats cannot get close to the PIR as well. cats do climb drapes very good at it too What i was wondering is, is there any downside to havign vipers on the windows or the wireless version of vipers (impact detectors??)?? wired / wireless thats a matter of choice but better wired imo. your windows need to be 'sound' ie fitting properly and will not shake or rattle from vibration cuased by traffic. wind and storms can cause false alarms on worn windows. also the neighbour/relation who rings the door bell, gets no answer and then taps on all the windows incase you have gone stone deaf suddenly - oh, and window cleaners. apart from that there great. i am wondering if the permiter would be a better choice as may lead to less false alarms. see above and seek advice from the alarm reps - its what they are paid to do is a complete fm system (4000E and PIRs) more expensive than a visionic PIR and texecom panel? don't know only use Visonc and Gardtec if radio is required. i just wonder who is supplying the better kit and if instaling wireless just means they are being lazy and trying to cut installation costs. horses for coarses, cost of labour against speed of fit and decor conciderations, make your own mind up. The national supplier state they dont do pet friendly for a reason all companies have differing attitudes, some steer clear as it may not detect an intruder, others feel its better than offering nothing as long as the client is aware of all the pro' and con's. and seem to be getting very agressive to get a sale (probably end of month sales figures i guess). suggest they go forth and multiply, any further chasing will result in a 'no deal' (sound like grant in eastenders). alternatively it depends on just how peeved you really are. and i can not recommend you do as i do either. i am happy to wind up a 50 page document in word (bless cut and paste) and fire of to them 10 times to their fax number, it tends to get your point of view over to them pronto, and wipes out all the paper in the fax machine to boot - the satisfaction is bliss. i hate my details being forwarded this way, i should complain to the 'major' about personal privacy, they may have a box you needed to tick to prevent this, but imo you should need to tick it to say you were happy for them to pass on your details. additionally to throw another supplier into the pot, we are getting cotactes by //.National Installer.// resellers too now so undercut //.National Installer.// by 50%, can these be trusted? i guess they get a commission from //.National Installer.//, but even considering the fact that their monthly charges for monitoring are slightly higher we would have to live in our house and get it monitored for 10+ years to loose money by considering a reseller. who knows how good the 'undercutters' are? so we can not comment on this either way. you best to offer the reps a clean sheet, do not say what the last guys have suggested, that way you will have a better idea of each reps ability to advise you, or if he is padding out his commision. regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wooke01 Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 thanks for all the responses. What I hated about the national supplier was that they made we walk around and tell them what i wanted, and didnt comment on what they thought was best therefore getting more sensors than prob reqd. Also a friend of mine got an alarm by same supplier recently in another area and was offered a discount. The other places all recommended pet friendly pirs none of them went for vipers which is interesting, i have no idea why they didnt even suggest vipers in their estimates and walk throughs. Also only 1 out of 4 suppliers even filled out the risk assessment form, should they not all be doing this? as they were all NIS or SSAIB? Another interesting thing i noticed is that none of the prices seem negotiable and no discounts been offered for taking the monitored service, is this normal? or is there so much work around at the moment that they dont need the work and need to negotiate? Usually where there is a sales person involved you can negotiate but none of them seem willing to negotiate anything. Also, is the alarm receivign centre a deciding factor or are they all pretty much the same or exactly the same receiving centre just rebranded? Thanks for all the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rjbsec Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 thanks for all the responses. What I hated about the national supplier was that they made we walk around and tell them what i wanted, and didnt comment on what they thought was best therefore getting more sensors than prob reqd. Also a friend of mine got an alarm by same supplier recently in another area and was offered a discount. They obviously didn't design a system for you then - heavy discounts just mean they are starting off too high and are in effect cheating you. The other places all recommended pet friendly pirs none of them went for vipers which is interesting, i have no idea why they didnt even suggest vipers in their estimates and walk throughs. Vipers as well as window contacts can be disruptive or unsightly or both, so some surveyors look for less obtrusive alternative detection devices. Also only 1 out of 4 suppliers even filled out the risk assessment form, should they not all be doing this? as they were all NIS or SSAIB? They may have done so after the visit, though ideally they should get you to sign it at some stage. Another interesting thing i noticed is that none of the prices seem negotiable and no discounts been offered for taking the monitored service, is this normal? or is there so much work around at the moment that they dont need the work and need to negotiate? Usually where there is a sales person involved you can negotiate but none of them seem willing to negotiate anything. See above - charge the right price first time is my way of doing business. Also, is the alarm receivign centre a deciding factor or are they all pretty much the same or exactly the same receiving centre just rebranded? They are not all the same but will be decided by the installer you use. Thanks for all the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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