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Testing Bell Box Battery


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#1 paulrichards

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 12:05 AM

Hi,

I have a Optima Compact Gen4 panel that I have just installed. Everything works fine but I would like to confirm the bell box battery works is ok, how do I this.

thanks

Paul
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#2 arfur mo

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 12:32 AM

hi Paul,

1) please don't do this at an inconciderate time to your neighbours - unless you really hate them :P .

disconnect the 240 mains from the panel, which should remain operative and silent, with perhaps some indications showing power is still on the panel, it is now operating in standby mode.

a crude test by engineering standards (we have special metering kit to test them efectively), but if so, then the panel battery is connected and seemingly working properly.

if you now carefuly open your panel and disconnect your panel battery, the external siren should start to sound, if not you need to have another look at the sirenc onfiguration and/or wiring.

some sirens come set up for a short run time (engineer test mode), so make sure it runs for 2+ minutes

if all is well, then reconnect the battery, shut lid, restore mains and reset the panel to silence it.

regs
alan

Edited by arfur mo, 28 October 2008 - 12:32 AM.

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#3 paulrichards

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 12:04 PM

Thanks !!!. So basically disconnect power (mains / battery) from the control panel and then if the bell box battery is OK the bell box alarm should sound ??.

I suspect the bell box battery may be nackered as its old, I am not looking forward to replacing the bell box.

Does a new bell box come with a flat battery as otherwise it would start sounding as soon as I take the cover off to wire it up ?

thanks

Paul
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#4 Chorlton

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 12:12 PM

Exactly, yes because it will think your Billy Burglar attacking it and it "should" do it's job of making noise.

Paul the battery would be charged but remember your not doing the test or indeed the replacment as an engineer would.
Your alarm has an engineering menu which allows service and repair without WW3 with the neighbours.
If you don't already have either the engineer code or manual we can't provide it but although you can't test/replace the bellbox quietly it is pyhsically possible the way arthur is saying.

C.
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#5 Alarm Protection

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 12:27 PM

You could also take out the bell hold from the panel and the bell should sound.
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#6 paulrichards

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 12:55 PM

yes I have the manual and engineering code (I changed it from the default) as I just installed the control panel.

So you saying that replacing the bell box is going to be noisy unless I get an engineer to do it who will have "inside" info on how to do it silently ?

I am not bothered about the bell box making a noise for a quick bell box battery test. however replacing the bell box is going to take more time so I dont want to be up a ladder with 115dB in my ears and bricks being thrown at me from angary neighbours.

So does engineer mode disable the bell box, if so then I am sorted
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#7 arfur mo

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 01:19 PM

ah, more info used old bell so new panel ball game, 'di thoight you had installed both new.

if your okd bell range when yoi ripped out the old panel assuming it was poeewd up for a time, your battery may be ok.

you need to check it is receiving a charging votage at the bell incase of wiring errors.

you can prevent the panel going into tamper by entering emgineer mode, but siren may still sound when lifting the lid, depends how or if correctly wired.

new siren will have info with it

regs
alan
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#8 paulrichards

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 02:09 PM

ok old panel was a scantronic 9548 (something like that) and it was nackered, false alarms, wouldnt set properly, so ages ago I disconnected the mains and the lead acid battery at the control panel. I never remember the bell going off (which I guess it should if the bell battery is ok), however thats not to say it didnt go off.

So the old alarm stayed disabled for some time (a year or so).

Just put in this new panel + new PIRs with the existing bell box. Now if the bell box battery is screwed then I really need to replace the bell box too.

I havent fully progammed/set up the new panel. Installed it, done a walk test, and an alarm/sounder/strobe test. Thats all ok, its just the bell battery I need to test now.
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#9 lawandorder

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 02:23 PM

ok old panel was a scantronic 9548 (something like that) and it was nackered, false alarms, wouldnt set properly, so ages ago I disconnected the mains and the lead acid battery at the control panel. I never remember the bell going off (which I guess it should if the bell battery is ok), however thats not to say it didnt go off.

So the old alarm stayed disabled for some time (a year or so).

Just put in this new panel + new PIRs with the existing bell box. Now if the bell box battery is screwed then I really need to replace the bell box too.

I havent fully progammed/set up the new panel. Installed it, done a walk test, and an alarm/sounder/strobe test. Thats all ok, its just the bell battery I need to test now.


Yes but no need to replace the entire box, you can just replace the battery in most cases though depending on age and condition you may want to consider fitting a new box.

Most of them have a disable facility which allows you to work on the box without deafening yourself.
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#10 paulrichards

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 02:26 PM

also when I put the panel into engineer mode and took the cover off the panel (to swap some zones) the souder went off, is this normal, i know I triggered the anti-tamper circuit (by taking the cover off) but it was in engineer mode so I thought it wouldnt do it.

If its usefull I can dig out how I wired the bell box up

Yes but no need to replace the entire box, you can just replace the battery in most cases though depending on age and condition you may want to consider fitting a new box.

Most of them have a disable facility which allows you to work on the box without deafening yourself.


yes I would replace the whole bell box, for 30 its not worth it, also the new ones come with a blue strobe, I like blue :-).

what has the disable facility, I assume you mean you disable the bell box via the control panel (in engineer mode) ?.
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#11 arfur mo

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 06:10 PM

Just put in this new panel + new PIRs with the existing bell box. Now if the bell box battery is screwed then I really need to replace the bell box too.

hi paul,

having swapped out all the other bits for new on your alarm system, why did not change the one thing that will alert others of an intruder?

bit like pimping your car - but retaining the old 5 1/2 J wheels imo.

so replace the siren and that way at least, you know its got a new battery, and has been better designed to keep you clear of the noise pollution act if you get a fault.

if you then want to test the siren battery, remove the + feed to the siren at the control unit (marked + BELL).

regs
alan

Edited by arfur mo, 28 October 2008 - 06:12 PM.

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#12 paulrichards

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 06:21 PM

I didnt replace the siren because it means ladders and drilling outside which is a pain, however I see your point.

So if I remove +BELL will that force the it use the battery onboard the bell box ???
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#13 lawandorder

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 06:27 PM

I didnt replace the siren because it means ladders and drilling outside which is a pain, however I see your point.

So if I remove +BELL will that force the it use the battery onboard the bell box ???


Yes it will.

In answer to your previous question some sounders when used with some panles allow you to run a routine which tempoarily disables the sounder so you can work on it. I don't think that is a feature of your panel though. (though I may be wrong)

Most new sounders have some means of disabling the sounder from the actual box so you can work on it without it sounding continuously but the method is different with different makes of sounder.

If you buy a sounder the instructions will explain it quite well.

Any Texecom, Gardiner Tech, CQR etc sounder will work with your panel.
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#14 arfur mo

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 07:03 PM

I didnt replace the siren because it means ladders and drilling outside which is a pain, however I see your point.

So if I remove +BELL will that force the it use the battery onboard the bell box ???

if it don't, then also remove the '- hold off'.

regs
alan
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#15 paulrichards

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 09:57 PM

just did this:

- put it engineer mode
- took cover off control panel
- removed +bell (red wire) labelled "D" on the control panel
- took panel out of engineer mode (dont think I needed to do this) and held tamper microswitch down

nothing, no siren, completely silent

will try with -hold off too

now just done this:

- into engineer mode
- removed panel
- removed BELL+ (red wire) labelled "D" on the control panel
- removed -VE (black wire) labelled "A" on the control panel, which the manual says is wired to HOLD OFF- in the bell box

nothing, no sound nothing, I did keep the panel in engineer mode but I guess if the battery in the bell box is good then it shouldnt matter.

I have also redone an alarm test with everything back together, and the bell box works with the power back on so its not like its died in the last few days.

So I guess the battery in the bellbox is screwed ??

Paul

Edited by paulrichards, 28 October 2008 - 09:52 PM.

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#16 arfur mo

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 10:01 PM

hi paul,

your over complicating the issue, its a very simple concept so lets step back a bit.

all you need to remmember is the siren needs voltage to charge the battery, and also 'know' the controls have not been ripped of the wall or the power turned off. so removing the voltage (as though the panel has been detroyed) the siren should sound.

if it don't, then you need to look at the siren wiring in the panel 1st, then the siren, then the siren battery, after that if needed then replace the siren - in that order.

i this is beyond you, tbh with all due respect, you need to seek a trained engineers help,as the time i've spent typng help, i could have fitted five sirens.

regs
alan
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#17 lawandorder

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 10:06 PM

just did this:

- put it engineer mode
- took cover off control panel
- removed +bell (red wire) labelled "D" on the control panel
- took panel out of engineer mode (dont think I needed to do this) and held tamper microswitch down

nothing, no siren, completely silent

will try with -hold off too

now just done this:

- into engineer mode
- removed panel
- removed BELL+ (red wire) labelled "D" on the control panel
- removed -VE (black wire) labelled "A" on the control panel, which the manual says is wired to HOLD OFF- in the bell box

nothing, no sound nothing, I did keep the panel in engineer mode but I guess if the battery in the bell box is good then it shouldnt matter.

I have also redone an alarm test with everything back together, and the bell box works with the power back on so its not like its died in the last few days.

So I guess the battery in the bellbox is screwed ??

Paul


Yes it is fair to assume that the battery is screwed or possibly disconnected or there may even not be a battery fitted.

The siren works when you trigger the alarm, it doesn't when you remove hold offs.

Either re connect the battery in the external sounder, replace the battery or replace the sounder.
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#18 paulrichards

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 10:08 PM

Thank you for your help, I am new to alarm systems, though have plenty of wiring and electronics experience (actually part of my trade believe it or not). So its merely a matter of understanding what is wired to what and what triggers what etc and finding a suitable quick test to fully test the system making sure it works correctly.

The alarm tests from the panel work, ie siren/strobe so I can only assume its wired correctly. I disconnected the power as above and the alarm did not sound therefore I am assuming my battery and therefore bell box needs replacing.

Edited by paulrichards, 28 October 2008 - 10:09 PM.

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#19 Adi

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 10:17 PM

You could also take out the bell hold from the panel and the bell should sound.



Same here.
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I really can't be ar**** with it anymore.


#20 Youngsy

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Posted 28 October 2008 - 10:21 PM

Maybe a jumper switch!
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