Guest 1sttimebuyer Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Hi I am on a small budget and looking for a an alarm. Obviously to keep costs down, I am after a wirefree one which I am hoping to install it myself. I know a lot of people here do not like wirfree alarms as they are a pain to maintain but considering I will be checking for low betteries etc and making sure it is fucntioning, is there a decent alarm with an autodialer that is reliable? I have also heard some wirfree alarms can be disabled by buglars etc, is that true? Thanks all for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zak Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 HiI am on a small budget and looking for a an alarm. Obviously to keep costs down, I am after a wirefree one which I am hoping to install it myself. I know a lot of people here do not like wirfree alarms as they are a pain to maintain but considering I will be checking for low betteries etc and making sure it is fucntioning, is there a decent alarm with an autodialer that is reliable? I have also heard some wirfree alarms can be disabled by buglars etc, is that true? Thanks all for your help. 66406[/snapback] Wirefree doesn't keep costs down unless they are of the B&Q variety. Apart from the dumbed down Visonic Powermax sold by BT, I don't think that anything else is really "DIY". You may be surprised at how economical a professionally installed hard-wired system is and perhaps it is something to consider. When you say "DIY", do you mean strictly plug and play, or something more advanced? Cheap wireless is pretty much ****. Professional wireless costs more than a wired system - some installers absolutely refuse to use them whilst others don't mind. Always hard wired over wireless unless circumstances dictate. Zak Tankel - Managing Director - Security First (UK) - www.securityfirst.uk.com Disclaimer: Any comments or opinions expressed by me are my own as a member of the public and not of my employer or Company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secboy Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 The problem is that the word "wire free" and "budget" do not really go together,if you must go wirefree in our trade we would always go for the best which is not seen as a cheap option but an expensive option which must be taken due to site circumstances!I would recommend you go for hard wired and for the sake of saving for a while search out three NSI approved companies and ask for quotes you may be surprised by the prices!.If you invest wisely it will serve you fault free for years but unwisely and you will end up with a pile of junk fit only for the bin Cannot answer any questions about defeating any alarm for obvious reasons! This is only my opinion and some of the other guys may give you different advise, none of it will be wrong but at least you will have different ideas to think about!!!Hope its helped? Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wm1976 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Ok, I take on board the comment about wired winning everytime. I work with networks and see wireless (wi-fi) as not substitute for cat5. But what about a hybrid system? Can you mix and match say a wired and mains powered sounder and panel but wireless PIRs for the far reaches of the property. Are there any available? PS: My house points northwards toward several trees. If you had to go for wirelss, which brands are the better (if you can say)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zak Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 First of all, (excuse me SECBOY , but you need to choose either an NSI or SSAIB registered company Regarding hybrid, you will need to go to a professional installer. There are several very decent hybrid systems if you have to have part wired and part wireless. GardTec is one. But these are not DIY panels and are not available to the public. Bosch also has one. We use both. I am sure other members will let you know what they use. Zak Tankel - Managing Director - Security First (UK) - www.securityfirst.uk.com Disclaimer: Any comments or opinions expressed by me are my own as a member of the public and not of my employer or Company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1sttimebuyer Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 hhhmmm... the main reason going for wirefree is oviously I may be able to do it myself. The other reason is that I have recetly decorated and didn't want to see any cables plus laminate in bedrooms would mean cables going around the door frames etc. I also need the autodialer and multi zone alarm...some people have recommended the ESP Infinite and Scantronic... Not sure now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zak Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 ESP is fully wireless and I think it also has a wireless external bell module. Scantronic is wireless but certain bits of it have to be wired in. However, neither of these panels are DIY in the plug and play sense. If you have some knowledge of these things then fine, but if you just want to be able to take it out of a box, drill a couple of holes and then voila, it will not happen. And, alarm systems, really, should be professionally maintained. You might even get a discount from your insurance company It is a shame that you didn't think of the alarm before you decorated. But then, most people don't Zak Tankel - Managing Director - Security First (UK) - www.securityfirst.uk.com Disclaimer: Any comments or opinions expressed by me are my own as a member of the public and not of my employer or Company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Electrics Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 but you need to choose either an NSI or SSAIB registered company 66413[/snapback] Only if your insurance company has specifically asked. Don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zak Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Only if your insurance company has specifically asked.Don Zak Tankel - Managing Director - Security First (UK) - www.securityfirst.uk.com Disclaimer: Any comments or opinions expressed by me are my own as a member of the public and not of my employer or Company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creative Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Look at Powermax plus - it was brought out for DIY - visonic say so - I buy my kit from the internet - there are a few sites offering the kit - it is reliable and does what it says on the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wm1976 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 I see a lot of alarms do not have external sounders. Why? Surely you want the neighbours to know when someone's in your house, although I know this can be annoying if you have too many false alarms. Can most systems be fitted with an external sounders? As my house is North facing and shaed by trees, should I wright off a wireless only option now or do some wireless systems have the options for mains/12v power? In my case, I just want a little extra security. I am not a business or in a "high-risk" area (I hope). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1sttimebuyer Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Thanks everyone for your help. I am getting the alarm as the house will be empty during the day and sometimes in the evening. I am not scared of learning a little on the setting up as its something I will enjoy. I am into IT so technical stuff does not scare me...but just wanted some help from people on here as I have never done anything with alarms before so as long as there is some literature with the alarm system, I don't mind leraning. I also have access couple of people one who is an electronic engineer and another who installs alarms as a part time kind of thing so if I get stuck, I can get help. So if someone knows of a good alarm like ESP etc, then I would prefer to get one which is decent...with a phone dialer. Also there is a compnay here who do wired systems for £300 but its basic with few PIRs and some door contacts but it has no dialer. Once again thanks to everyone for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zak Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Look at Powermax plus - it was brought out for DIY - visonic say so -I buy my kit from the internet - there are a few sites offering the kit - it is reliable and does what it says on the box. 66431[/snapback] Powermax Plus is most definitely not a DIY system and was never intended as such. Visonic are doing ,so they say, a great deal to restrict the sale to professional experienced installers, and the main UK resellers of the systems will have to comply or face losing their supplier. Zak Tankel - Managing Director - Security First (UK) - www.securityfirst.uk.com Disclaimer: Any comments or opinions expressed by me are my own as a member of the public and not of my employer or Company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zak Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 1st time buyer, with any system that has not been installed before a certain amount of confusion will ensure. Registered installers have the benefit of calling the manufacturer's tech support for minor and major queries. These manufacturers, unless by mistake, will never support DIY-ers - hence Visonic restricting the sale of their professional range that is misleadingly being sold as DIY. So, unless you can buy a kit that you can get tech support with, I would really consider getting a professional quote. If you are insistent on doing it yourself you will have to surf the net, or go to an electrical trade counter and see what is available, or ask your part time alarm installer. It also depends on how much time you have to put in to researching and then installing, and have the mettle (?) to see it through and not bin it if things go awry! Hopefully some others will post but most engineers do not agree with DIY-ers trying to fit professional kit.....it usually ends in tears. Zak Tankel - Managing Director - Security First (UK) - www.securityfirst.uk.com Disclaimer: Any comments or opinions expressed by me are my own as a member of the public and not of my employer or Company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavrick_001 Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 ESP Infinate panel for your wire free system.... very good, not exactally cheap but very good quality kit and at a reasonable price. You don't have to have an approved company unless your insurance requires it, approval doesn't mean that the installation standards of that particular company are better than a non-approved company, there are many approved companies out there who's work is absolutly shocking (rogues gal examples this) so it's up to you who you want to do the job. The ESP panel is reasonably simple to fit and with some common sense you won't go far wrong, well worth the money and not a single problem with one yet. CCTV Intruder Access Control Tony Hughes, Proprietor, TRADE MEMBER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secboy Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 First of all, (excuse me SECBOY , but you need to choose either an NSI or SSAIB registered company Regarding hybrid, you will need to go to a professional installer. There are several very decent hybrid systems if you have to have part wired and part wireless. GardTec is one. But these are not DIY panels and are not available to the public. Bosch also has one. We use both. I am sure other members will let you know what they use. 66413[/snapback] Your right Zak its just that sometimes I cant remember SSAIB I remember the letters but not necessarily in the right order so its better to not try!!!! Castle-care do a class 6 wireless which interfaces with there range of hardwired! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 There are some good reasons for and against wireless. I am one of the anti wireless party.Personally I dont trust it and I have had some bad experiences. However, there are alot of chaps on here that I respect that do use wireless and wont admit to any problems. Either way the kit they use is only available to trade and the DIY wireless stuff is worse than no alarm at all (boy who crys wolf). So I suppose what im trying to say is get a quote preferably from someone reccomended by a freind or nieghboor, or one of the approved bodies as stated above. You may even be pleasantly suprised. Pete 66604[/snapback] Peter, this is already second 's on me you received this week.. Slow down or i'll be broke by next century.. : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Teague Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Personally I dont trust it and I have had some bad experiences. However, there are alot of chaps on here that I respect that do use wireless and wont admit to any problems. 66604[/snapback] 1st time buyer I've said this in other threads, I would prefer to hard wire every time, but we do occasionally come accross a client who insists on a wire free option, especially if their house is finished (decorations, carpets etc). If I don't do it, one of my competitors will & I'd rather have the money for doing it & a monitored contract rather than them, so I'll do it if they cannot be talked into a hard wired system. We list as many pro's & con's as we can in our specifications for a client considering wire free, with a disclaimer in respect of the risk of the system failing to perform / being circumvented and upon signing, they sign that they fully understand this. I'll only ever install wire free for a low risk domestic installation, not a commercial & I do share Pete's concerns, although have never had one fail to perform to date. Such a scenario could be the end of a company & it's reputation. The only two such wire free systems we have used are the Gardtec Hybrid range & the Honeywell Domonial. Our clients are very happy with them, but neither are available to the DIY'er. The problems we have had to date (not many thankfully)are no different than we would have had with a hard wired system. I estimate we've done aprox 10 Gardtec Hybrids & 2 Domonials in the last 12 to 18 months and are happy to continue, prefering the Gardtec range. Regards Chris Chris Teague (Sales & Operations Manager) Sightguard Intruder Division Covering the Isle of Wight: - Design, Installation, Maintenance & Takeover of Intruder Alarms, Fire Alarms & Equipment, CCTV, Access Control, Nursecall. Keyholding Service, Guarding & Cash in Transit. SSAIB & NICEIC Registered Tel 01983 884000 / 884440 Any comments / opinions posted could be the voices in my head speaking, but they are my opinion only and do not represent those of my employer or Company Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 1sttimebuyer Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 I see where you guys are coming from. The professional wirefree stuff is only available to pros and the DIY stuff is not so good...well ESP stuff seems to get thumbs up. I am limited in choice or I get a hard wired stuff...albeit with some wires showing!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creative Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Powermax Plus is most definitely not a DIY system and was never intended as such. Visonic are doing ,so they say, a great deal to restrict the sale to professional experienced installers, and the main UK resellers of the systems will have to comply or face losing their supplier. 66537[/snapback] Sites on the net supply to the public and these sites say its ideal for diy installations, they even offer to programme the kit for you - visonic do not say it's for profesional use only - infact they say it is easy to install in a matter of an hour or so - they did orignally say on thier main web site that Powermax + was ideal for the diy market - they may have changed their minds but surely they can not dictate who buys the kit and into which market they then resell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zak Posted September 2, 2005 Share Posted September 2, 2005 Sites on the net supply to the public and these sites say its ideal for diyinstallations, they even offer to programme the kit for you - visonic do not say it's for profesional use only - infact they say it is easy to install in a matter of an hour or so - they did orignally say on thier main web site that Powermax + was ideal for the diy market - they may have changed their minds but surely they can not dictate who buys the kit and into which market they then resell 66861[/snapback] Of course they can dictate into which market they sell. Not at the moment by selling it on the net via 3 or 4 distributors, but how do you think other professional kit is unavailable to the public. Really, I could not careless what vendor's sites say. They are trying to sell a product to make money. Believe you me, making £10-20 for shifting a box is pretty **** income unless you are selling a few a day, especially with the fortune they are spending on sponsored links. These companies are also not alarm installers - just people trying to make money. The only way for them to sell a few a day is to sell to everyone. We had very in depth meetings directly with Visonic about this. They are supposed to be providing their official resellers with special authorised logos, and these people are supposed to be setting up a trade section to their online stores so that they only sell the Powermax and Powermax Plus to the TRADE. The only Powermax product that is supposed to be widely available is the BT product. I didn't just make this up. Visonic have a lot of problems with DIY-ers calling them up asking how to install the system. Most enquiries are simple that engineers would know. Visonic do not have the resources to field technical calls from the public. I am sure they are between a rock and a hard place - if they don't sell to the public then they don't shift boxes either - but then they have to deal with tech support for people who often can't even wire a plug. Compared to "professional" systems, the Powermax range does not get installed by alarm engineers. Not in this country anyway. Maybe Visonic haven't finally decided on which course of action they are taking with this panel and there lies the confusion. But, believe you me, whether ESP or Visonic, they were not designed for Joe Public to open a box, plug it in, and have a system working very shortly. There are programming and configuring options that they won't understand, terminology they will never have hard of, techology that they have never seen, and although someone with a logical brain and some common sense should have no problem, there are always a few questions that need to be answered - and there is no one to answer these questions unless the online vendors have their own support, which they don't. Zak Tankel - Managing Director - Security First (UK) - www.securityfirst.uk.com Disclaimer: Any comments or opinions expressed by me are my own as a member of the public and not of my employer or Company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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