Why does scantronic 9751 have only one A/T point?

[Guest roonster]

Ive noticed that the scantronic 9751 has only one A/T point. That is one point of connection for all the tamper circuit wires.

However its buddy the 9954 expander seems to have an anti tamper point for each circuit/zone.

Why does the 9954 have a AT for each zone but the main panel only has one to be shared across all 8 zones?

Surely they should have put more thought into the panel as they have done on the expnader?

I mean getting 16 wires into one point is probably not possible.

If the 9751 has all tampers at one point, do the tampers in the 9954 need to be on one point as well? Or can they be put on their own points?

B)

[Guest]

You scare me.

You do not need to get 16 wires into a tamper terminal. The most there will ever be in any tamper terminal on a control panel is 1. The tamper and detection loops are wired in series, the power and data buses are wired in parrallel.

[Guest roonster]

lol! nah m8, im not gonna be wiring it up. Im just keen to learn. My m8 will be back from hols soon and hes gonna do it.

Im just curious. Been reading manual and stuff trying to make sense of it.

Aint got nowt else to do. Failed uni, so may as well try and learn something. Keeping options open still though.

So on the expander are they wired one to each circuit? or does same procedure apply as to the 9751 board?

Cos it says that the same wiring type should be used as the one on the main panel. So expander and panel should have same type of wiring.

I understand that if CC is used on panel then it should be used on expander. But on the panel as you say there is only one tamper wire going into the terminal for all 8 zones.

But the 9954 expander has a AT terminal for each zone. So im just wondering whether on the expander they should be wired individually. Will the control panel pick up?

My understanding is, that if there is a tamper fault on the zones in the 9751 then they will be harder to trace as they share a common tamper.

However on the expander as each one has its own AT terminal any tamper faults will be easier to find.

[Guest]

Cos it says that the same wiring type should be used as the one on the main panel. So expander and panel should have same type of wiring.

I understand that if CC is used on panel then it should be used on expander. But on the panel as you say there is only one tamper wire going into the terminal for all 8 zones.

But the 9954 expander has a AT terminal for each zone. So im just wondering whether on the expander they should be wired individually. Will the control panel pick up?

My understanding is, that if there is a tamper fault on the zones in the 9751 then they will be harder to trace as they share a common tamper.

However on the expander as each one has its own AT terminal any tamper faults will be easier to find.

64886[/snapback]

Yep, that's about the size of it.

The tamper loop is still CC whether it's wired one loop per zone or one global loop. The reference is more towards the actual way the the panel detects the tamper, i.e. matching resistance valuse or a simple open\closed circuit, not the exact way of wiring the 2 different types of detection, if you get my drift.

[Guest roonster]

thanks mate - i get the jist of it now.

Although i cant still get my head around how the tamper loop is wired.

All the cables coming in from the different zones (pirs, contacts, shock, PA) have two wires used as a tamper loop. As far as i understand they are twisted together at the zone device and screwed in. Or simply screwed in to the tamper terminal at the device.

What happens to them when they all meet up at the control panel then? There are two terminals for the global/common tamper.

Say green and blue are used as tamper wires throughout the installation. Greens all go into some kind of special connector block and then one extra core (Piece of green alarm cable is taken to global AT terminal 1?

Then the second colour say blue same happens to that and goes into global AT termial 2?

[antinode]

thanks mate - i get the jist of it now.

Although i cant still get my head around how the tamper loop is wired.

All the cables coming in from the different zones (pirs, contacts, shock, PA) have two wires used as a tamper loop. As far as i understand they are twisted together at the zone device and screwed in. Or simply screwed in to the tamper terminal at the device.

What happens to them when they all meet up at the control panel then? There are two terminals for the global/common tamper.

Say green and blue are used as tamper wires throughout the installation. Greens all go into some kind of special connector block and then one extra core (Piece of green alarm cable is taken to global AT terminal 1?

Then the second colour say blue same happens to that and goes into global AT termial 2?

64897[/snapback]

When using a global tamper, all the tamper circuits of each device are wired in series, so that the tamper circuit forms one big loop around the system. A voltage is sent from the control panel's global tamper connection which goes to detector 1's tamper circuit, it comes out of detector 1 and into detector 2. It comes out of detector 2 and into detector 3 etc:

[Nova-Security]

I thought this panel could be wired EOL so everything would have its own tamper.

[Guest roonster]

When using a global tamper, all the tamper circuits of each device are wired in series, so that the tamper circuit forms one big loop around the system. A voltage is sent from the control panel's global tamper connection which goes to detector 1's tamper circuit, it comes out of detector 1 and into detector 2. It comes out of detector 2 and into detector 3 etc:

64918[/snapback]

Thanks for your reply mate. Diagram is very useful. I now understand how the loop is formed in theory! The two tamper wires green white green white continue to form a massive loop!

Where are the two link wires going into by the way? Is it a seperate terminal connector block?

So say its an 8 way terminal block. One link wire goes to point 1. The other goes to point 8.

Then its simply a case of joining the tamper wires from each zone in series.

Or have I understood it al wrong again and it infact goes into the CCT. Circuit zones on board the panel. Along with the alarm circuit. Thus two wires in each terminal?

So basically what id like to know is, is it separte terminal connector block for the connections? Or connections with the alarm circuits/ on board zones.

.

[wheelers]

Why dont you just use the FSL (fully supervised loop) option that way you have less wiring in the panel and its more secure than using a global tamper plus the 9751 will then report idividual tampers..

[Guest roonster]

yeh, could do. Im just trying to figure out the basic wiring method first.

Anyways done some more searching and reading and I think ive found the answer to my own question.

The tamper wires go into an 8 terminal conector block. Thing is youd expect it to be supplied with the kit. Hence i was confused as to where the tamper conections could go. I mean theres no place for it to go on board! No mention of using connector block in the manual. Nothing!

Thing is scanny provide terminals to take it in series on the 9954 expander but not on the actual panel!

ANYWAYS, so what kind of connector block should be used? Same as the one in the panel?

With FSL do lads use solder to make the connections for the resitors? Or a simply twist and go?

Im kinda getting the jist of FSL/EOL now. But hasnt totally clicked just yet.

ALso 1 more question, how is the 12v and 0v wired? Is that simply a case of getting all 8 wires into the terminal? 8 into 12v and 8 into 0v?

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