INTEGRALSBRISTOL Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Hello everyone Does any body out there know what the requirement are for having a key switch/code before you can operate a gas extinguishant panel.Strange request but I have taken over the maintenance of a system and a few procedural issues have arisen,namely that the client leaves the key switch in the controls active position at all times and the key is locked away.I have had a look at bs 5839 but not sure about EN 12094-1 etc.I'm of the opinion that it shouldn't be left like this in case someone switches the system back to auto whilst you are in the room but not entirely sure about this one.thanks for having a read any input welcome . thanks Pc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esp-protocol Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Hello everyoneDoes any body out there know what the requirement are for having a key switch/code before you can operate a gas extinguishant panel.Strange request but I have taken over the maintenance of a system and a few procedural issues have arisen,namely that the client leaves the key switch in the controls active position at all times and the key is locked away.I have had a look at bs 5839 but not sure about EN 12094-1 etc.I'm of the opinion that it shouldn't be left like this in case someone switches the system back to auto whilst you are in the room but not entirely sure about this one.thanks for having a read any input welcome . thanks Pc I don't think there is anything regulation wise regards leaving the key in the enabled position. This is more likely an internal procedural issue and you're right the client is possibly leaving himself open to someone actually placing it in Manual and leaving it there thereby preventing an automatic discharge. If you're using an inert gas or anything certified as not "not lethal if your daft enough to get caught in it" then there should be no problem leaving the system in automatic 24/7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luggsey Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Hello everyoneDoes any body out there know what the requirement are for having a key switch/code before you can operate a gas extinguishant panel.Strange request but I have taken over the maintenance of a system and a few procedural issues have arisen,namely that the client leaves the key switch in the controls active position at all times and the key is locked away.I have had a look at bs 5839 but not sure about EN 12094-1 etc.I'm of the opinion that it shouldn't be left like this in case someone switches the system back to auto whilst you are in the room but not entirely sure about this one.thanks for having a read any input welcome . thanks Pc We always tried to get the client to fit a Chubb mortise lock with built in microswitch connected to the manual/auto switch. When the door was unlocked system went to manual, lock the door, system goes to auto. I 'suppose' you could use an occupancy PIR to do the same thing? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Life is like a box of chocolates, some bugger always gets the nice ones! My Amateur Radio Forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky999 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 I agree with Luggsey that a mortise lock with a micro switch is the best. But if the client is always leaving the switch active then always make a note on the service cert. to cover your back. Peter Robinson Freelance M:07889038650 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L200 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Good replies to the post , and agree with all , , but being old school going back to post office relays and halon spheres , and even with latest gases I would as an engineer not entertain walking through gas areas in auto. Some of my clients find it extremely funny that they have to change the status of the panel before we work on it. I have seen 2 gas panels go crazy and dump in excess of 60 bottles , both proved to be processor faults confirmed by the makers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven sneddon Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 We always tried to get the client to fit a Chubb mortise lock with built in microswitch connected to the manual/auto switch.When the door was unlocked system went to manual, lock the door, system goes to auto. I 'suppose' you could use an occupancy PIR to do the same thing? Great working practice, should really be part of regs, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatonTE1 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Great working practice, should really be part of regs, imo. Slight flaw being that (as in the case of simply switching from auto to manual and back again) this depends on human compliance. Paper trailing can be an answer,where a key is signed out for the protected area and when it is returned the "return-ee" declares/signs that the system has been put back on to automatic. The fact that there is usually a first stage alarm,a second stage alarm and an agreed time delay on discharge means that even if you are in the room you should have time to evacuate prior to any discharge. Also,the extinguishing agents are (generally) more people friendly than they historically have been and are more "breathable" in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luggsey Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Slight flaw being that (as in the case of simply switching from auto to manual and back again) this depends on human compliance.Paper trailing can be an answer,where a key is signed out for the protected area and when it is returned the "return-ee" declares/signs that the system has been put back on to automatic. The fact that there is usually a first stage alarm,a second stage alarm and an agreed time delay on discharge means that even if you are in the room you should have time to evacuate prior to any discharge. Also,the extinguishing agents are (generally) more people friendly than they historically have been and are more "breathable" in. It works because the person wanting to go into the room 'has' to unlock the door to get in, that puts the system on manual. Unless they lock themselves in the room, (We used to blank the keyhole inside and the handle always opens from inside) they can't set the system to auto. Almost foolproof but a fool can always prove you wrong! Oh, they can also forget to lock the door but if they forget the door they could forget a manual switch..... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Life is like a box of chocolates, some bugger always gets the nice ones! My Amateur Radio Forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatonTE1 Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 It works because the person wanting to go into the room 'has' to unlock the door to get in, that puts the system on manual.Unless they lock themselves in the room, (We used to blank the keyhole inside and the handle always opens from inside) they can't set the system to auto. Almost foolproof but a fool can always prove you wrong! Oh, they can also forget to lock the door but if they forget the door they could forget a manual switch..... So when they leave the room they just have to lock it and it goes back to auto then? lol - your edit returned my last. It boils down to specific site procedures and the fact that the possibility of someone not putting the system onto automatic is much more likely (thus nullifying the reason for an automatic extinguishing system in the first place). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven sneddon Posted February 6, 2009 Share Posted February 6, 2009 Slight flaw being that (as in the case of simply switching from auto to manual and back again) this depends on human compliance.Paper trailing can be an answer,where a key is signed out for the protected area and when it is returned the "return-ee" declares/signs that the system has been put back on to automatic. The fact that there is usually a first stage alarm,a second stage alarm and an agreed time delay on discharge means that even if you are in the room you should have time to evacuate prior to any discharge. Also,the extinguishing agents are (generally) more people friendly than they historically have been and are more "breathable" in. I see where you are coming from Allen as of the audit trail, but wouldn't it be better if there was some sort of automatic staged engage/disengage (not unlike the system luggsey suggested) to minimize human error rather than have someone on a bit of paper to blame. Not actually done an extinguishant system since leaving protec 10 years, so going to do a bit of reading on this subject. If there is not too many reasons why not, surely there is a market for a forward thinking engineer? Look forward to your reply on this Allen, not tonight right enough (bedtime) need to be fighting fit, tomorrow being the end of a very bad week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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