vivtal Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 Dear All, I am a new member and after searching on this forum, I could not find relevant info. hence this post. I have a DSC (Canadian) security system (Power632 Six Zone, wired and wireless) and as an additional security cum home-automation system, I am planning to use an OMROM Zen 20 point PLC (12 i/ps and 6 relay o/ps). I have Visonic Discovery PIRs which I wish to use with the above PLC. Now the question is whether I can use these PIRs for outdoor? Say, by using a weatherproof enclosure/ protected from direct sunlight etc. (The front of course will be open . Has anyone used a similar indoor type PIR externally in a suitable enclosure? I also have a PIR based external halogen flood-light and the only difference (at least visually) I see is that it has weather-proof enclosure. Am I correct? Regards, Viv PS: To summarize, are there any other differences between an external PIR and an indoor PIR other than a weather-proof enclosure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoke Screen Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 Dear All,I am a new member and after searching on this forum, I could not find relevant info. hence this post. I have a DSC (Canadian) security system (Power632 Six Zone, wired and wireless) and as an additional security cum home-automation system, I am planning to use an OMROM Zen 20 point PLC (12 i/ps and 6 relay o/ps). I have Visonic Discovery PIRs which I wish to use with the above PLC. Now the question is whether I can use these PIRs for outdoor? Say, by using a weatherproof enclosure/ protected from direct sunlight etc. (The front of course will be open . Has anyone used a similar indoor type PIR externally in a suitable enclosure? I also have a PIR based external halogen flood-light and the only difference (at least visually) I see is that it has weather-proof enclosure. Am I correct? Regards, Viv PS: To summarize, are there any other differences between an external PIR and an indoor PIR other than a weather-proof enclosure? Normal PIR's (i.e. a Discovery) will be more sensitive to extremes of temperature. It may be better to try a quad element (there is a Visonic quad I believe). That said, there are people on this forum that are better qualified to answer than I. Matt Gilmartin, Sales Director T: +44(01205) 821111 | F: +44(01205) 820316 info@smoke-screen.co.uk | www.smoke-screen.co.uk Head office: 1-2 North End, Swineshead, Boston, Lincs PE20 3LR Registered in the UK no. 2728491 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vivtal Posted November 27, 2007 Author Share Posted November 27, 2007 Normal PIR's (i.e. a Discovery) will be more sensitive to extremes of temperature. It may be better to try a quad element (there is a Visonic quad I believe).That said, there are people on this forum that are better qualified to answer than I. The place where I stay (Bangalore India) does not (I think) have variations in temp. especially in the night. Also the reason I want to use a PLC so that I have a kind of complete (??) programmatic control over what I could do after the sensor/s detection etc. Also, a couple (or many) of PIRs located differently but scanning same area may eliminate the problem of false alarms. Any suggestions? Incidently I plan to use only internal buzzer so that it does not wake up neighbours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 the principle is the same, movement of heat source detection, as a rule i would be very reluctant to use a detector designed primarily for internal use externally especially for security, the design of the Fresnel lens is so it is best suited to internal situations, the pyro sensor is also selected and designed on the same lines. external detectors need many considerations to be taken into account for reliability of operation, like animals, insect penitration, water ingress (rain or mist), air flow and swaying bushes or tree's even washing on a line within it's range. in your country there are also the extremes of heat and humidity in which this detector may not function properly at certain times, causing false alarms or failing all together. so your best advised to buy a detector specifically designed for the job in hand of which there are many options, and not bodge up an unsuitable one. you want to use a PLC to control everything, modern alarm panels even cheap ones can do all you want very easily and effectively, so why go and re-invent the wheel? you could use GJD Opal external detection, excellent kit can control lights too, a bit more expensive (but also has the buzzer already built in ) regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vivtal Posted November 27, 2007 Author Share Posted November 27, 2007 the principle is the same, movement of heat source detection, as a rule i would be very reluctant to use a detector designed primarily for internal use externally especially for security, the design of the Fresnel lens is so it is best suited to internal situations, the pyro sensor is also selected and designed on the same lines.external detectors need many considerations to be taken into account for reliability of operation, like animals, insect penitration, water ingress (rain or mist), air flow and swaying bushes or tree's even washing on a line within it's range. in your country there are also the extremes of heat and humidity in which this detector may not function properly at certain times, causing false alarms or failing all together. so your best advised to buy a detector specifically designed for the job in hand of which there are many options, and not bodge up an unsuitable one. you want to use a PLC to control everything, modern alarm panels even cheap ones can do all you want very easily and effectively, so why go and re-invent the wheel? you could use GJD Opal external detection, excellent kit can control lights too, a bit more expensive (but also has the buzzer already built in ) regs alan Agreed, but I have to consider the availability of the material also. Home security is a new market in India and the brands that are easily available in UK may not available here. BTW, the whole thing started because, I have not seen any dedicated external PIRs so far and since I have the indoor PIRs already, just wanted to check whether they can used externally. Also, as I said earlier, this PLC for me would be an additional security system (I already have the DSC panel, with PIR, Mag reed switches etc), which would also act as a home-automation system. I am not sure whether a dedicated security panel can switch on a light or act as light dimmer. ( I have gone thro' the manual of DSC Power series but still not sure whether lights can be switched on/ or dimmed?) Also my previous experience with PLCs is that they are quite robust. Also do you think, using multiple PIRs (and good programming) would eliminate false alarms? And finally, do you think they may fail because of extremes of temparature changes. (BTW, the specs say, the said PIR has safe operating range -10 to +50 degrees centigrade) Rgds, Viv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 Agreed, but I have to consider the availability of the material also. Home security is a new market in India and the brands that are easily available in UK may not available here. BTW, the whole thing started because, I have not seen any dedicated external PIRs so far and since I have the indoor PIRs already, just wanted to check whether they can used externally. Also, as I said earlier, this PLC for me would be an additional security system (I already have the DSC panel, with PIR, Mag reed switches etc), which would also act as a home-automation system. I am not sure whether a dedicated security panel can switch on a light or act as light dimmer. ( I have gone thro' the manual of DSC Power series but still not sure whether lights can be switched on/ or dimmed?) Also my previous experience with PLCs is that they are quite robust. Also do you think, using multiple PIRs (and good programming) would eliminate false alarms? And finally, do you think they may fail because of extremes of temparature changes. (BTW, the specs say, the said PIR has safe operating range -10 to +50 degrees centigrade) Rgds, Viv Hi Viv, not tried working with PIRs in very hot climates, you would be better going for 'dual tec' unit, these have PIR and Micro wave detectors cross each other so as to eliminate activations from problem sources (with differ for each technology). some domestic pir's cn be slow t detect if both the background and the subject are at warm temperatures, often a person who has been in a house for some time may not trip a pir immediately when passing by, but then a person walks in who has just come from say the garden, it works straight away. as your fairly restricted for kit and so choice where you live, i would suggest perhaps source from Ebay if you have access, obviously you need to find vendors happy to post to India, we have many of you nationals over here running businesses, so a bit of research to be done (or invite one of us lot over for a free holiday in your beautiful country ). we have more sophisticated alarm systems available which can be interfaced with to control lights even operate access control, but you seem to be going for a more sophisticated home automation plan. to be quite frank (but i hope not condescending) we get many such enquirers on this forum, it usually leads to a lot of wasted time, money and many many tears. my very best advise is to keep it really simple in order to keep it really effective. this forum has 7000+ members yet with all that undoubted excellent ability available i'd be surprised if even 5 of them have full home automation - sort of tells it's own story don't you think? regs alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topalarms Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 UK company used to use Optex internal PIRs for car sales forecourt warning systems, used some silicon for protection but eventually the lenses suffered from the elements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camerabloke Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 agreed, the lens will crack very quickly use something like opal or redwall Eucam Security Systems 0845 4630 746 www.eucam.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfur mo Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 agreed, the lens will crack very quicklyuse something like opal or redwall or a bleeding big DOG! feed it on the victims to hide th evidence regs Alan If you think education is difficult, try being stupid!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whistle Posted November 27, 2007 Share Posted November 27, 2007 Dear All,I am a new member and after searching on this forum, I could not find relevant info. hence this post. I have a DSC (Canadian) security system (Power632 Six Zone, wired and wireless) and as an additional security cum home-automation system, I am planning to use an OMROM Zen 20 point PLC (12 i/ps and 6 relay o/ps). I have Visonic Discovery PIRs which I wish to use with the above PLC. Now the question is whether I can use these PIRs for outdoor? Say, by using a weatherproof enclosure/ protected from direct sunlight etc. (The front of course will be open . Has anyone used a similar indoor type PIR externally in a suitable enclosure? I also have a PIR based external halogen flood-light and the only difference (at least visually) I see is that it has weather-proof enclosure. Am I correct? Regards, Viv PS: To summarize, are there any other differences between an external PIR and an indoor PIR other than a weather-proof enclosure? LOL It will never work.. If you want external protection buy redwall Etc not internal pirs boxed up and fitted outside. LOL we get calls to so much cack that has been fitted wrong by diy. Do it once do it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.