Guest Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah okay then.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magpye Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 British Standard PD6662 dictates that ONLY alarm engineers can access engineering functions / programming, call it what you like. Permitting a user to access engineering breaks regulations. We all have to follow the regulations, 'nuff said. magpye Someone told me I was ignorant and apathetic, I don't know what that means, nor do I care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 customer, i agree but i feel you miss my point. If your customer deletes everything with his root access and says, it was fine yesterday no-one touched it, then what. Do you not fix it. or do you fix it. With our stuff it has to perform and when it doesnt someone gets sued. Im glad you have fond a company that will certificate and let you do what you want afterwards (i think they are wrong mind) regarding your 4) point. Yes you are correct we sould be in the clear as long as we could prove you modifed your alarm afterwards, and we put in writing taht the system no longer complied as we no longer had control. Then your insurance company wouldnt pay out. But if you dont need an approved alarm for your own reasons or the insurnace companies this is irrelevant. ps if you left say the mysql root password blank, who would be liable if someone gained entry. Who would be seen at fault by the papers. securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Customer Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 James, Hopefully I have not missed your point. If I want an alarm system that connects to a response centre or I want a contract from any of the NACOSS companies or indeed any company then quite rightly that company should hold the ENG code and I should not have access. I think we agree on this point. But I dont want the connection to a response centre , I dont want a certificate to say its NACOSS installed all I want is the enjoyment of expanding the system and finding out how it works. My insurance company does not care, I live in a very low crime area, Have extra locks on all the doors / windows active member of neighbourhood watch , timed lights and curtains that open and shut automatically (Swish fantastic totally recommend). Why do people object to me tinkering with my alarm? Re - My SQL Point. Generally to obtain any access you pass through a screen where you acknowledge your right to access the system and by continuing you are commiting a criminal offence. I have not come across any issue where the supplier / consultant is sued for leaving default passwords / blank passwords. I'm sure if it was a goverment dept the papers would have a great time but legally I dont know the implectations. regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 James,Hopefully I have not missed your point. If I want an alarm system that connects to a response centre or I want a contract from any of the NACOSS companies or indeed any company then quite rightly that company should hold the ENG code and I should not have access. I think we agree on this point. yes if under contact no engineer access agreed But I dont want the connection to a response centre , I dont want a certificate to say its NACOSS installed all I want is the enjoyment of expanding the system and finding out how it works. My insurance company does not care, I live in a very low crime area, Have extra locks on all the doors / windows active member of neighbourhood watch , timed lights and curtains that open and shut automatically (Swish fantastic totally recommend). Why do people object to me tinkering with my alarm? that is fine, im sorry i misunderstood your nacoss refence and thought you wanted it certificated with your engineer code, my apologies Re - My SQL Point. Generally to obtain any access you pass through a screen where you acknowledge your right to access the system and by continuing you are commiting a criminal offence. I have not come across any issue where the supplier / consultant is sued for leaving default passwords / blank passwords. I'm sure if it was a goverment dept the papers would have a great time but legally I dont know the implectations. if we did we would be sued regards i asked the sql question as i dint know, but i remeber barcalys i think omeone hacking it and getting everyones bank details. Bank blamed the it company and the press slated them for not chnaging the default password. I feel end users should be locked out if under contract, but if not then i dont see it matters. I understand you want to mess with your own alarm. Good luck and i hope all goes well. securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Why do people object to me tinkering with my alarm? Please yourself as far as I'am concerned, what I don't like numpties telling me I should be giving confidential codes to all & sundry & then getting on their high horse bleating restrictive practice....... I think my signature covers you, how many legs you got? Fit your hobby alarms any way you fancy, when you want to criticise industry standards I suggest you do it from a industry view point for example with some comprehension of the subject rather than the building reg's.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Hi Customer You have some very valid points as do the guys who have replied to your posts. Since the dawn of time, well at least the 19 years I have been installing alarms, every installing company has their own engineering code in the panel. This is designed so primarily clients can't access the programming which in the wrong hands could render the alarm useless. Alarm companies are contracted to get things right and have efficacy insurrance policies which provide insurance to the consumer for errors. The programming is a key area where errors can be made. In short the installer has the right to keep this sacred otherwise it would create a us and them situation if things went wrong. The code is not set in stone and can be changed by a competent security engineer but obviously some reprogramming may be needed. The only time that the consumer is entitled to stamp their feet regarding engineering codes is when the dodgy installers use certain panels lock facilities. This then prevents the engineering code from being changed and basically means the panel can be thrown away. These panels often feature a service timer which prevents the alarm from being used when a service is overdue. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Please yourself as far as I'am concerned, what I don't like numpties telling me I should be giving confidential codes to all & sundry & then getting on their high horse bleating restrictive practice....... I think my signature covers you, how many legs you got?Fit your hobby alarms any way you fancy, when you want to criticise industry standards I suggest you do it from a industry view point for example with some comprehension of the subject rather than the building reg's.... Was getting bored ploughing thru this QFA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Customer Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 James, Thanks, Dave, The only time that the consumer is entitled to stamp their feet regarding engineering codes is when the dodgy installers use certain panels lock facilities. This then prevents the engineering code from being changed and basically means the panel can be thrown away. On my DSC system its "Installer Lockout Enable" which stops the ability to reset the system to defaults which in effect junks the PCB at a cost of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 James,Thanks, Dave, On my DSC system its "Installer Lockout Enable" which stops the ability to reset the system to defaults which in effect junks the PCB at a cost of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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