Guest gust Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 ok tell me if you think i've did the right thing.. just been to a job where the cable used on the zones was a four core screened cable not fire proof so i just condem it. there and then.. what i could not understand was there been two othere enginneer there to service the system. one did make a note it was wired in the wrong cable but thats all they did.. in the log book they put no fauls found on the system. now corret me if i'm wrong but if some one was killed cos of a fire in that building and the fire cable for the zones was burnt befor an activation happen.. i would be liable for the death cos the fire alarm was not installed to british spec? what would you do? condem it or just service it? gust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 It probably was installed to BS when the BS was that you can use any cable for detection. I wouldn't condemn it, I'd mark it down as it wants sorting at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gust Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 now thats a frist never heard that you can use any cable for the detection circuit.. this was installed about 6 years ago thats not that long ago will have to check that one out.. but as far as i'm aware all zones and bell circuit had to be wired in fp cable.. even systems that i've been to that are 20 year old used pyro? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealth Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 I would advise the customer of the situation ( with out scaring them to much). Then maybe get a quote in to resolve the problem. But as Lurch said it was installed to the old standard, so dont worry to much. Chubb Service Engineer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gla.ssfp Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 many old system,s had the detection circuits installed in T & E or beldon cables some even used co-ax cable. This was ok to BS 5839-1 1988 as only the sounder circuit needed to be in fire proof cable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb-eye Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 ok tell me if you think i've did the right thing..just been to a job where the cable used on the zones was a four core screened cable not fire proof so i just condem it. there and then.. what i could not understand was there been two othere enginneer there to service the system. one did make a note it was wired in the wrong cable but thats all they did.. in the log book they put no fauls found on the system. now corret me if i'm wrong but if some one was killed cos of a fire in that building and the fire cable for the zones was burnt befor an activation happen.. i would be liable for the death cos the fire alarm was not installed to british spec? what would you do? condem it or just service it? gust You need to be trained in fire before you start condeming things. If i had installed this system i would be making you pay big time for slaging my work without getting your facts correct. Hope this helpsjef Customers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gust Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 just had a look at bs5839.. reg.. ok got this one wrong.. now it dose state that smoke detectors dose not need to be wired in fire proof cable...in the one i've just look at. no it dose not mean i need trianing.. just that i should sit and read the full bs5839.. i got this wrong cos that what i was told. by an fire engineer... now i'm off to the office for the compleat bs5839 plus updates. gust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esp-protocol Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 just had a look at bs5839.. reg.. ok got this one wrong.. now it dose state that smoke detectors dose not need to be wired in fire proof cable...in the one i've just look at.no it dose not mean i need trianing.. just that i should sit and read the full bs5839.. i got this wrong cos that what i was told. by an fire engineer... now i'm off to the office for the compleat bs5839 plus updates. gust Check out the date of the BS you are reading. If it was installed 6 years ago, then it had to comply to the 1988 edition, which did allow non fire proof cabling for detection zones, although there were a few pre-requisites like routing cables through areas of low fire risk and also routing them such that a fire in one zone couldn't affect cables belonging to another zone.... ..... clear as mud then!! It should also comply with the amendment (clause 6612 I think) for detector head removal and short circuit monitoring. You mentioned a four core cable, if the "other" two cores belong to sounders or another zone, then this again could be a non-compliance. Now, when it comes to maintenance of an alarm system, according to our BAFE man the current BS (2002) applies retrospectively and so you need to look at all systems regardless of age with regard to the current maintenance section (part 6) of 5839. It's all a bit grey, but I think you have to try and walk the middle ground. You can't condemn the system if it complied at the time of installation, but may be you point out to the client the dangers and weaknesses of the installation. You can lead a horse to water...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jb-eye Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 Check out the date of the BS you are reading.Now, when it comes to maintenance of an alarm system, according to our BAFE man the current BS (2002) applies retrospectively and so you need to look at all systems regardless of age with regard to the current maintenance section (part 6) of 5839. If your right? Then i need to go and do some re-training Jef Customers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esp-protocol Posted March 18, 2006 Share Posted March 18, 2006 If your right? Then i need to go and do some re-training Jef Well all I can say is that Vic (?) who did our training from the BFPSA said that section 6 was retrospective. Which I've always found strange as there are so many "grey bits" eg. sound levels under the "old" regs (65db everywhere) may not comply, suddenly today, (60db in small offices) they do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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