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Guest murphaph

Shock Sensor location?

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Guest murphaph

Hi all,

I'm currently installing an Aritech CD72 panel at home. I have 2 x GS620 self contained shock sensors to integrate into the system. I'll have contacts on every door & window opening. House is double glazed throughout (fairly sturdy windows and doors). I'm thinking a shock sensor on the front and back doors. What do you experts reckon?

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If your allready planning using contacts shock sensors are a bit ott. You would probably be better putting well set up shocks on the windows instead of contacts.


Dave Oxendale

York based security systems engineer.

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Guest IM_Alarms

try to think about how you would force your way in if you were locked out and there was no choice, side windows? back patio? upstairs window flom flat roof etc. :ninja:;)

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Guest murphaph
cheers lads. I already have the contacts and the 2 x shock sensors in my possesion since way back. I may as well get them up or else they'll just go missing. I'd go through the front door (kicking it in) as it's the only place to gain access without breaking glass, but a thief might not care so much. My front door is actually at the side of the house and not clearly visible from the street. I'll put one there. Probably the back door (has a double glazed panel and is the least visible area of the back of the house).

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Is it just me, or did u mention putting shock sensors on your doors....

BAD IDEA - Will set off alarm whenever anybody knocks on your door.

Also a bad idea to put on windows near door if people are likely to knock on those (instead of door (it happens)).

IMO mag contacts on double glazing windows are pointless. by the time they get the window open they will have had to break the glass and open from inside by which time a cleverly placed PIR should have picked them up. Also as previously said, shocks are better on windows if placed correctly.

Just my opinion. :P


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Guest
Is it just me, or did u mention putting shock sensors on your doors....

BAD IDEA - Will set off alarm whenever anybody knocks on your door.

Also a bad idea to put on windows near door if people are likely to knock on those (instead of door (it happens)).

IMO mag contacts on double glazing windows are pointless. by the time they get the window open they will have had to break the glass and open from inside by which time a cleverly placed PIR should have picked them up. Also as previously said, shocks are better on windows if placed correctly.

Just my opinion.  :P

50882[/snapback]

Not so sure on that, the aftermath of breakins I have seen have been the UPVC window forced open even when in the locked position - they dont tend to break the glass - too noisy!

Shocks dont pick up too well on UPVC window or door frames - so actually contacts AND a PIR in that room is prob the best way to do it.

Im not saying dont use shocks, but just be aware that vibrations arnt transmitted through a UPVC frame anywhere near as well as a solid wood frame.

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Guest murphaph
Not so sure on that, the aftermath of breakins I have seen have been the UPVC window forced open even when in the locked position - they dont tend to break the glass - too noisy!

Shocks dont pick up too well on UPVC window or door frames - so actually contacts AND a PIR in that room is prob the best way to do it.

Im not saying dont use shocks, but just be aware that vibrations arnt transmitted through a UPVC frame anywhere near as well as a solid wood frame.

50887[/snapback]

I'm using contacts all round the house (they're hardly a bank-breaker and useful if someone left a window pushed closed but not actually closed bedore arming the system IMHO. I also have PIRs in the downstairs hall, lounge and Kitchen. The shock on the front door will be fitted to a wooden frame. The back door is uPVC so it has to go there I'm afraid. I heard the door lintel was actually better than the frame, any thoughts?

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...but just be aware that vibrations arnt transmitted through a UPVC frame anywhere near as well as a solid wood frame.

50887[/snapback]

I'll go u on that 1 :P

But...

I'm using contacts all round the house (they're hardly a bank-breaker and useful if someone left a window pushed closed but not actually closed bedore arming the system IMHO. I also have PIRs in the downstairs hall, lounge and Kitchen. The shock on the front door will be fitted to a wooden frame. The back door is uPVC so it has to go there I'm afraid. I heard the door lintel was actually better than the frame, any thoughts?

50931[/snapback]

I'd still say dont put shock sensors on doors. Also, what will you do if someone wants to open a window at night when it get hot, HoT, HOT. Or will the U/S contacts be off on part set??


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I'm using contacts all round the house (they're hardly a bank-breaker and useful if someone left a window pushed closed but not actually closed bedore arming the system IMHO. I also have PIRs in the downstairs hall, lounge and Kitchen. The shock on the front door will be fitted to a wooden frame. The back door is uPVC so it has to go there I'm afraid. I heard the door lintel was actually better than the frame, any thoughts?

50931[/snapback]

Re-read my post! Im agreeing with you on the contacts!

BUT - back them up with PIRs also, contacts on their own are not the way to go, but are used more of a first line of defence.

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Guest murphaph
Re-read my post! Im agreeing with you on the contacts!

BUT - back them up with PIRs also, contacts on their own are not the way to go, but are used more of a first line of defence.

50942[/snapback]

Sorry DNS. I know you were agreeing with me....it must be my poor internet tone! I'm going to do as you suggested; contacts all round backed up by PIRs on the ground floor. I will be able to allow part set or whatever-the panel is fairly programmable for all circumstances, it's an Aritech CD72. Seems like we have some disagreement over the shock sensors. I was going to program the front door to alarm on gross attack only-to avoid poor Jehovah's Witnesses setting it off while trying to convert me. The back door I can set to trigger on pulse count and gross attack. I have the capability (24 zone panel) to allow the shock sensors to be on their own zone (I thought this a wise move given that they can fail more readily than a reed switch and I'd like to be able to omit them without dropping defences on the whole door). Thoughts?

Thanks for all your input so far guys. It helps to have an objective voice to listen to.

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All devices must be on a seperate zone.

So if you have a window contact and a shock sensor on the same window - these must be on seperatezones, PIR's should be on seperate zones even if covering the same area, i.e. window contact and PIR in the same room.

Long gone are the days people thought it acceptable to put more than 1 item on the same zone.

So run multicore cable i.e. 8 core, so it can feed a shock and contact on seperate zones and still have a tamper pair in the cable.

Good luck :)

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OK - Ill re-phrase - Its good practice to keep devices on seperate zones then.

Its bad practice to have more than one device on 1 zone In my opinion.

Dave.

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Guest

How many devices have you succesfully wired into one zone then and thought it was a good idea?

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Guest murphaph
OK - Ill re-phrase - Its good practice to keep devices on seperate zones then.

Its bad practice to have more than one device on 1 zone In my opinion.

Dave.

51035[/snapback]

I have all powered devices on their own zone. I have a fair few opening windows so the contacts will have to be series devices i'm afraid.

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OK - Ill re-phrase - Its good practice to keep devices on seperate zones then.

Its bad practice to have more than one device on 1 zone In my opinion.

Dave.

51035[/snapback]

Hmm, in the absence of spare zones, I think it is just fine when they visibly latch - Multiple Vipers for example?

Although I suppose that you'd usually be getting that in a commercial installation, where there would be no excuse for not simply expanding the panel by as many zones as required. But with fixed 8 zone panels, i.e Domestics, I think its a reasonable thing to do.

Stu.


So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands

 

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Of course it is.

I wasnt thinking straight, as he wouldnt have enough zones if he does ALL his windows, so he'll have to series his windows up LOL

I was doing a ID panel on saturday - and I was thinking I had thirty or so zones to play with LOL,

Its difficult to switch off sometimes LOL, damn those ID panels LOL.

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Murphaph - im unfamilar with the aritech, so yours has 24 zones, is that enough to have devices seperate?

As Monteey so rightly pointed out, unpowered devices dont have to be on the same zone.

But I have always found itextremely helpfull - especially when setting an alarm to see which window has been left open etc etc, and when there on their own zones - this is very easily achieved.

Let us know how you get on :)

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Guest murphaph
Murphaph - im unfamilar with the aritech, so yours has 24 zones, is that enough to have devices seperate?

As Monteey so rightly pointed out, unpowered devices dont have to be on the same zone.

But I have always found itextremely helpfull - especially when setting an alarm to see which window has been left open etc etc, and when there on their own zones - this is very easily achieved.

Let us know how you get on :)

51116[/snapback]

24 zones isn't enough to over every contact. The panel can't expand beyond 24 zones either.

I have enough zones to have every powered device and every window on their own zone, but not each opening in every window. I think that's enough. If one contact is open I will be able to locate the particular window, just not the actual opening but what the hey-unless a contact goes bad it will just be a matter of visually identifying the open contact. I had to pretty much rewire the house with 8 core to get me to where I am-the previous install was a disaster (panel had 5 zones, only 3 used and the zone choices made no sense whatsoever-lounge and upstairs bedroom were on the same zone-arrgghh!!). It's coming along though....

Thanks for your continued interest. I'll let you know how it goes!

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Guest

Yep - now youve explained, it sounds fine.

It looks as if youre going about it all correctly - its nice to see.

Dave.

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Guest murphaph

Well, it's all up an running-boy, you lads weren't kidding about shocks travelling poorly through PVC frames. You hae to really wollop the door to make it open the relay, even on it's most sensitive setting. The font door (wooden) is much better. I have only a gross attack set on that, cos it was too easy to trip by knocking on the door with pulse count. The old alarm was a real disaster area-total cowboy installation IMHO. I added to obligatory fused spur to my new panel too, just for completeness.

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Hello again :)

Yes - the UPVC frames annoy me sometimes. Try not to set the shocks too high, as this could false alarm etc.

Use them as a first line of defence with the PIRs being the main line of defence, if set correctly though, shocks can be very effective.

Good luck, let us know how you get on.

Dave.

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With reference to multiple devices on one zone, a maximum of 10 unpowered devices may be connected to a single zone.

If you get a fault though, what a nightmare.


The opinions I express are mine and are usually correct!

(Except when I'm wrong)(which I'm not)

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Guest

Murphaph - how is the system running? - All is well I hope?

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Guest murphaph
Murphaph - how is the system running? - All is well I hope?

52156[/snapback]

Yes thanks Dave. No probs (touch wood) so far. I'm glad it's done and dusted and I feel much more secure. I just want to add a relay for switching on a floodlight to one of the programmable outputs. Then I'm all finished.

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The old alarm was a real disaster area-total cowboy installation IMHO. I added to obligatory fused spur to my new panel too, just for completeness.

51507[/snapback]

I know what you mean. I ripped our old alarm system out a few months back and replaced the lot with decent equipment and cable. The list of dodgy stuff I found is pretty long. Fused spur (located under the floorboards) had a 13 amp fuse in it, AUX fuse linked out, no earth sleeving, multiple detectors on one zone, cables chased into walls with only a thin covering of filler, wires twisted together and insulated with white alarm cable insulation, no tamper, cables run underneath carpets, SAB link not cut, not a single cable clipped anywhere, mains supply to panel run with alarm cables, not a twisted pair in sight, no use of cables ties/general panel untidyness banghead He works for BT now.

I'm glad your new alarm is up and running though ^_^ The relay switching is pretty straight forward.


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