steven sneddon Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 HI All Just been asked to quote on a reasonable sized job apollo protocol morley panel, every device has a built in isolator. Done a job for leader systems a while back and remember having a conversation with the commisioning engineer and he told me that they had a few problems with with apollo when they had to many isolators on the loop, spoke to apollo tech they assure me you can only have not enough. wondered if anybody has found any such problems as I have never installed a job with all apollo isolators and the conversation with the engineer from leader has planted a seed of doubt. Regards Steven Sneddon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L200 Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 This was all brought about years ago if I remember right , and the Fire Brigade were worried if more than a single zone was in short circuit affecting another , BS then wrote some words of wisdom . I think Gent were the first to do this. Personally I think its a pain in the **** and its going to be more aggro at our end. An isolator should be in a single gang box adjacent a call point and these devices should be first and last on the software zone. Its going to be a mare for loop faults access at high level etc etc. Its about time manufacturers and rule makers , got out on site and chase round the building like the rest of us . I for one will be shopping around to find someone who isn't going to go down this road , no doubt there will be numerous postings of problems in relation to this issue of built in isolators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cerberus NI Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 This was all brought about years ago if I remember right , and the Fire Brigade were worried if more than a single zone was in short circuit affecting another , BS then wrote some words of wisdom . I think Gent were the first to do this. Personally I think its a pain in the **** and its going to be more aggro at our end.An isolator should be in a single gang box adjacent a call point and these devices should be first and last on the software zone. Ideally yes,but install costs and cable routes dictate where your loop enters and leaves a zone Its going to be a mare for loop faults access at high level etc etc. The fact that you have built in isloators in each device means that you (1) reduce the number of devices affected by a short circuit and (2) you pin the short down to between two poiints.If isolators kick in at high level due to a cable fault then it's irrelevant - the fault is at high level and it's saved you running around like a numpty trying to chase the fault at ground level. Isolators protect the integrity of the system and if the equipment isn't up to the job then that's a manufacturers issue. Its about time manufacturers and rule makers , got out on site and chase round the building like the rest of us . I for one will be shopping around to find someone who isn't going to go down this road , no doubt there will be numerous postings of problems in relation to this issue of built in isolators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVE IN KENT Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 i have done a fair bit with the appllo stuff. Put in a system a while back that had loop isolators built into the bases of preatty much every other device the morley dx1e i was useing has worked fine no problems. Dave NSI GOLD BASED IN KENT INTRUDER,ACCESS CONTROL,CCTV,FIRE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven sneddon Posted May 23, 2008 Author Share Posted May 23, 2008 i have done a fair bit with the appllo stuff. Put in a system a while back that had loop isolators built into the bases of preatty much every other device the morley dx1e i was useing has worked fine no problems.Dave for the replies everybody, just wanted to hear it first hand from someone who had already done this type of system. Regards Steven Sneddon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luggsey Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 for the replies everybody, just wanted to hear it first hand from someone who had already done this type of system. Regards Steven Sneddon The problem used to be with the older XP90 isolators which could be a pain when powering up a big loop. XP95 isolators and base isolators are fine as Cerb said a better option then zone isolators, Gent sussed this out almost 20 years ago and everyone else is just catching up. Gent really were the mutts nuts a few years back! Most don't realise there are in/out requirements on isolators so make sure that's done right first time and you should have few problems. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Life is like a box of chocolates, some bugger always gets the nice ones! My Amateur Radio Forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest G.J.M Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 The new generation of Apollo isolators are designed to go at every point and not cause loop problems unlike the older 20D bases. Everything now is going towards every point having an isolator but the only problem now is for commissioning engineers who are expected to test every isolator on a loop. I still keep to the 20 device between isolators as i know i can test each one at commission stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truss and France Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 No problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky999 Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 HI All Just been asked to quote on a reasonable sized job apollo protocol morley panel, every device has a built in isolator. Done a job for leader systems a while back and remember having a conversation with the commisioning engineer and he told me that they had a few problems with with apollo when they had to many isolators on the loop, spoke to apollo tech they assure me you can only have not enough. wondered if anybody has found any such problems as I have never installed a job with all apollo isolators and the conversation with the engineer from leader has planted a seed of doubt. Regards Steven Sneddon Hi Steve - Just read your post about isolators on a Morley panel not sure how the new ZX5Se panel will cope with every Apollo device having built-in isolators. But a little while ago we had a problem on a site using Morley ZX5e with 828 firmware the isolators kept flashing and turning on and off. Cut down the number of isolators and that seemed to help, but Morley suggested changing the firmware and using higher powered loop cards standard card rated at 260mA and the newer rated at 460mA (they have now told us the rating is 386 mA) If you are quoting Morley panels use the new ZXSe panel. If you use standard Apollo devices without built in isolators GJM is correct in using isolators every 20 devices as rule of thumb. Recommend a call to Morley to see if they heard of any problems then speak to Apollo tech for a proper answer. Pete Peter Robinson Freelance M:07889038650 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven sneddon Posted May 23, 2008 Author Share Posted May 23, 2008 Hi Steve - Just read your post about isolators on a Morley panel not sure how the new ZX5Se panel will cope with every Apollo device having built-in isolators. But a little while ago we had a problem on a site using Morley ZX5e with 828 firmware the isolators kept flashing and turning on and off. Cut down the number of isolators and that seemed to help, but Morley suggested changing the firmware and using higher powered loop cards standard card rated at 260mA and the newer rated at 460mA (they have now told us the rating is 386 mA) If you are quoting Morley panels use the new ZXSe panel. If you use standard Apollo devices without built in isolators GJM is correct in using isolators every 20 devices as rule of thumb. Recommend a call to Morley to see if they heard of any problems then speak to Apollo tech for a proper answer.Pete Peter,for your input that gives me a bit of confidence as someone has already had the problem and cured it. Also thanks to everyone else its appreciated. Regards Steven Sneddon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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