Hello All, Am New And Need Advice

[camerabloke]

http://www.brewtime.co.uk/product-detail.asp?d=773

[arfur mo]

I am coming into the last phase of a comprehensive rescue of a grade 2* listed building which was in a near state of collapse see Visit My Website ( sorry it has not been updated for a while) . I am now wiring it up. Am putting in a central dimming system of dimmer units for the lighting. These are standard dmx dimmers with an analogue 0-10v input 4 x 5 amp output

[Guest anguscanplay]

Just finished the alarm on a " house " with at last count 8 of these beauties in - lights,sockets closes the blinds and runs the bath , wonder why he didnt just use an alarm panel to do it - not a good idea IMO

[arfur mo]

Just finished the alarm on a " house " with at last count 8 of these beauties in - lights,sockets closes the blinds and runs the bath , wonder why he didnt just use an alarm panel to do it - not a good idea IMO

Hi ngus,

i too have my reservations on these schemes, like HiFi's where if the cd player packs up the whole system gets trashed or sent back for repairs.

but maybe it's the way things will eventually go, and not to far in the future either at this rate. i forsee one plug-in super controller not just dedicated to being an alarm or fire system, they will be a common as grass item with the advent of decent radio technology.

\\\runs off to re- read Orson Wells books \\\

regs

alan

[golfball]

x-10 compatability will be the way alarm-systems will go

there is a limit to what you can get an alarm system to operate through its outputs (only cos there are not that many of them fitted to the circuit board)

also you cant ring in to your alarm system and get it to put the kettle on turn the electric blanket on

turn on the outside lights ETC

which is probably why honeywell bought out the domonial which is completely wireless and x10 compatable and grade 2

monitoring will be done down the broad band pc network armed with a lap-top and the ip adress you can pretty much controll anything around your house

the only thing holding this sort of progress back is the instability of the network and the download/upload capacity of th current phone network

at some point the next step will be to dump copper phone lines and go optical

[Guest anguscanplay]

at some point the next step will be to dump copper phone lines and go optical

there aready some way down that path now with C21 pretty soon 100MB will be slow

[golfball]

cant wait

real time downloading will be the next big thing but i dont think it will happen

[jonmaine]

hi jonmaine,

welcome to the forums,

not looked at you web site and seems an interesting special project though, and while not wanting to poor water on the fire i don't want you to spend loads of dosh and be wasting it, and i ask is this a largish house and do/will you eventually have valuables within it?

if so you may need an installer who is NSI or SSAIB registered to maintain it, especially if it needs to be monitored by a central station for the security element.

many ,if not most such alarm companies will not get involved with your type of hybrid systems, especially if installed by non-trade 'engineers', even though you have a sparks on board. so please check with your intended insurer if they will require this qualification before you set about it.

just a word of caution here, be very careful about part 'P' requirements especially on a listed building, we don't want the fancy dan lights starting a fire, burns down the house and you then can't claim because it was not properly certificated - do we?.

the above happened recently to someone i know of, some clot or an electrician installed halogen spot light modules into fittings designed and clearly marked for LED fittings only, so if you will excuse the pun we don't want you to get your fingers burnt

hope it all goes well

regs

alan

Alan

Dont worry , I have already considered all the issues you have raised. ( No integral down lights) We are getting the wiring tested and certified and will have a certified fire alarm to BS5839 L2. With regard to the "hybrid security alarm" I consider that we should not have problems as the alarm itself will be a stand alone item doing its job as it should. It will just feed through some of its outputs to another system which should not compromise its functionality or standard at all. I think we are ok to find someone to assess it as ok for insurance purposes.

Probably most of the instalation will be part p compliant anyway, its just a funny crinkle that as the building control notice was issued before part p came in we do not need it for this job at all. I have been in the building trade for 25 years now and on tv for the quality of my work so I do tend to keep my eye on things being done in a safe well organised manner.

Thankyou for your advice, I do value constructive critiscm highly.

Regards Jon

[Guest anguscanplay]

Alan

Dont worry , I have already considered all the issues you have raised. ( No integral down lights) We are getting the wiring tested and certified and will have a certified fire alarm to BS5839 L2. With regard to the "hybrid security alarm" I consider that we should not have problems as the alarm itself will be a stand alone item doing its job as it should. It will just feed through some of its outputs to another system which should not compromise its functionality or standard at all. I think we are ok to find someone to assess it as ok for insurance purposes.

Probably most of the instalation will be part p compliant anyway, its just a funny crinkle that as the building control notice was issued before part p came in we do not need it for this job at all. I have been in the building trade for 25 years now and on tv for the quality of my work so I do tend to keep my eye on things being done in a safe well organised manner.

Thankyou for your advice, I do value constructive critiscm highly.

Regards Jon

I think you`re been mis informed about the need for certs after such a long project you`re way past the transition period for part p and as a trade we have misgivings about hybrid`s and with the confusion still over grading systems and adding ancillary items which arn`t graded I would be most suprised if you can get a regulated company ( for insurance ) to "pass" the alarm - could it be done with a second system just to control the walk through lighting ? or even better using stand alone occupancy sensors

angus

[arfur mo]

hi Jon,

qfa as Angus also to reinforce,

we don't want to get into who can p highest up the wall contest, we do respect your abilities. the members offering you advice are not earning any pennies from you, but giving combined experience which run's into hundred if not thousands of years, and the advice derived is about as fair as you will ever get and with the lowest prejudice.

here is one sample of what you could easily fall foul of, todays systems are graded 1 - 4 (4 being rated highest security) assessed by site visit. so lets say being listed you require a grade 3 system for insurance purposes, you might fit everything for the alarm ready to conform. but if during your lighting attachment/controller device installation you fit a device graded as a grade 2 or 1 device, the whole system drops to the lowest denominator graded component and/or installation technique used, and thats when an unfortunate claim could get tad sticky with a sharp claims assessor.

so please, for peace of mind (ours if not yours) at least get some companies in to quote you - its free!!. you are not obligated to accept the quote/s but you will get invaluable input, so if you then decide to install yourself you will be better informed.

we, as you would i'd hope, advise caution from our in trade experience, we are not all security engineers many are highly experienced sparks. a lot of such experience is gained from seeing others learn from their often rather expensive term fee's, for the school of unforeseen 'hard knocks'.

regs

alan