Guest UKEZ Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 My Scenerio@work I have two large corprate sites that i need to migrate from analogue to a full IP rated Cameras and digital recording system. Site one has approximately 80 cameras, 80% being PTZ 20% static and coverts. Site Two has approximately 100 cameras, 80% being PTZ 20% static and coverts. Boths sites currently use Ultrak (Now Honeywell) Max 1000 Video management systems. (sites are 1.5miles away from each other) My aim is to put something in place than can migrate the old systems with todays IP technoligy. Obviously i still want to utilise the old system as before, but also want the inferstructure in place to enable these sites to start using IP cameras and storage. Slowly over periods i'll change the current hard wired systems for IP equipment, depending on my budget. I need some recommendations on equipment to use, i've found a company called www.milestonesys.com and they look promising, but id like your opinions and recommendations for servers and static and ptz cameras, internal and external. Professional's ideas for corprate sites not equipment from ebay for your local newsagents please, as i've got to put my name to this project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doktor Jon Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 Hi UKEZ and welcome, You'll forgive me if I don't jump straight in and start throwing answers to your questions, but where you are looking to integrate two reasonable size systems, particularly over a period of time, it isn't sensibly going to be something you do in a hurry, but then I guess you already knew that. If you could perhaps suggest where you are at in terms of operational objectives, what you would like to achieve in stages, maybe think about what sort of budget you're going to allocate (at the back of your mind, not necessarily to be posted), and obviously over what timescale, then that would be a start. Without wishing to state the obvious, if time is on your side, it would be prudent to do some homework now, and then take a trip up to IFSEC at the NEC at the beginning of May, where everyone and their uncle will be showing off their "State of the Art" "Digital" CCTV / IP solutions. The only word of caution I would suggest at this stage is, that whilst the recording side should be fairly straightforward to address, the conversion of conventional analogue monitoring systems over to IP based, must been done with very careful planning, and hopefully for all the right reasons, and not simply because it seems like a good idea. D.J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 23, 2006 Share Posted March 23, 2006 My Scenerio@workI have two large corprate sites that i need to migrate from analogue to a full IP rated Cameras and digital recording system. Site one has approximately 80 cameras, 80% being PTZ 20% static and coverts. Site Two has approximately 100 cameras, 80% being PTZ 20% static and coverts. Boths sites currently use Ultrak (Now Honeywell) Max 1000 Video management systems. (sites are 1.5miles away from each other) My aim is to put something in place than can migrate the old systems with todays IP technoligy. Obviously i still want to utilise the old system as before, but also want the inferstructure in place to enable these sites to start using IP cameras and storage. Slowly over periods i'll change the current hard wired systems for IP equipment, depending on my budget. I need some recommendations on equipment to use, i've found a company called www.milestonesys.com and they look promising, but id like your opinions and recommendations for servers and static and ptz cameras, internal and external. Professional's ideas for corprate sites not equipment from ebay for your local newsagents please, as i've got to put my name to this project. seems like youve bitten off more than you can chew..id walk away from this one could cost you.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJF Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 You have some fairly technical ideas going on there mate. If I was trying to plan this type of system then my first phone call would be to Norbain 01253894488, they will put you on the right road. Once you know which brand of control equipment (prob ultrak) then get them to come to site. Top tip: if you ever catch fire, try to avoid seeing yourself in the mirror, because i bet thats what REALLY throws you into a panic and dont forget the one thing you cant recycle is wasted time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secboy Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 You have some fairly technical ideas going on there mate. If I was trying to plan this type of system then my first phone call would be to Norbain 01253894488, they will put you on the right road. Once you know which brand of control equipment (prob ultrak) then get them to come to site. Would very much agree with this method PJF once you have made the customer / supplier contact they will be very help full if you ask especially to visit site and survey, you are after all potentially a future big customer and it has always struck me how helpfull some / most suppliers are in this industry,ENG has voiced a valid concern over your costs and profit for quite a large project, however I suggest you discuss with the customer exactly what their requirements and expectations are but do so perhapes with a site visit from the supplier as he will be able to pick up on any problems which he see's assist in sorting them.(BE AWARE! working at height regs are much stiffer,make sure the customer is responsible for the supply of cherry pickers etc as required or you could get well stitched up) Be sure that you are not tying yourself to a fixed price for the entire project or you will come a cropper !!!! break the project up or even agree to individual quotes for each piece of work that way you will reduce your liability for large slices at fixed costs. I am rather envious that you have got this job it could be a nice long term very profitable earner and I certainly would not walk away from it as long as you take my advise to maximise profit and reduce liability. Do you already work for the customer or contract?. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest UKEZ Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 I'd say i have a fairly good relationship, with the likes of Norbains, Ultrak, Gardiners, and a number of others. I've already had alot of offers from a number of companies to supply us this that and the other and we've had numerous site visits from them, but still i havent seen anything so far that is overly impressive. I'll be visiting a large site using the milestone systems next month to see how good thier systems are and to check out its capablities, supposedly its something special. The company i'm visiting has done the same sort of migration that im aiming at so it will be interesting to see, and to talk to the engineers maintaining it. Im still open to options though. Im off to lunch now, bbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 i don't see very much benefit yet in changing analoguecameras to IP based ones. bear in mind that ethernet cable can't exceed 100m + 10m of patch cable in case of cat5. if you're on cat6 it is 100m including patch cables. also 100 cameras generate quite a lot of IP traffic. due to bandwith reservation method in ethernet network you get approximately 10% of full capasity --> gigabit network allows you to use 100mbps. depending of the compression method and frame rates that is hardly enough or too little. anyway you would need to separate it from other LAN network. i would suggest you get DVR's accessible over IP network. march networks DVR's would be ideal since you can easily stack necessary amount of them in case you need (16 milllion is the limit at the moment if im correct). they also support recording from IP cameras as well as analogue ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secboy Posted March 24, 2006 Share Posted March 24, 2006 i don't see very much benefit yet in changing analoguecameras to IP based ones. bear in mind that ethernet cable can't exceed 100m + 10m of patch cable in case of cat5. if you're on cat6 it is 100m including patch cables.also 100 cameras generate quite a lot of IP traffic. due to bandwith reservation method in ethernet network you get approximately 10% of full capasity --> gigabit network allows you to use 100mbps. depending of the compression method and frame rates that is hardly enough or too little. anyway you would need to separate it from other LAN network. i would suggest you get DVR's accessible over IP network. march networks DVR's would be ideal since you can easily stack necessary amount of them in case you need (16 milllion is the limit at the moment if im correct). they also support recording from IP cameras as well as analogue ones. Good points about the band width problem !! that many cameras will gobble up a lot of space especially if its viewed 24/7 ???. I'd say i have a fairly good relationship, with the likes of Norbains, Ultrak, Gardiners, and a number of others. I've already had alot of offers from a number of companies to supply us this that and the other and we've had numerous site visits from them, but still i havent seen anything so far that is overly impressive.I'll be visiting a large site using the milestone systems next month to see how good thier systems are and to check out its capablities, supposedly its something special. The company i'm visiting has done the same sort of migration that im aiming at so it will be interesting to see, and to talk to the engineers maintaining it. Im still open to options though. Im off to lunch now, bbs. Its a pity you didn't want to reveal any info as to what position you would be carrying out the work as per my previous posts no one knows who you are so there would be no come back and its interesting to discuss these things!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Main Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 My recommendation would be to migrate from analog to digotal recording initially. Your analog cameras can be connected to new DVRs with Honeywel camera control compatibility. The new DVRs will have IP connectivity so that can be viewed at the recorder location or anywhere on your network (with authorisation). I do not necesssarily see immediate benefits of changing analog to IP cameras since perforamce of analog front end devices is very often better than newer IP models. Paul Main ClearView Communications Ltd Robjohns Road Chelmsford Essex CM1 3AG Telephone: 01245 214104 Fax: 01245 214101 paul.main@clearview-communications.com www.clearview-communications.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Robmanchester Posted March 25, 2006 Share Posted March 25, 2006 My Scenerio@workI have two large corprate sites that i need to migrate from analogue to a full IP rated Cameras and digital recording system. Site one has approximately 80 cameras, 80% being PTZ 20% static and coverts. Site Two has approximately 100 cameras, 80% being PTZ 20% static and coverts. Boths sites currently use Ultrak (Now Honeywell) Max 1000 Video management systems. (sites are 1.5miles away from each other) My aim is to put something in place than can migrate the old systems with todays IP technoligy. Obviously i still want to utilise the old system as before, but also want the inferstructure in place to enable these sites to start using IP cameras and storage. Slowly over periods i'll change the current hard wired systems for IP equipment, depending on my budget. I need some recommendations on equipment to use, i've found a company called www.milestonesys.com and they look promising, but id like your opinions and recommendations for servers and static and ptz cameras, internal and external. Professional's ideas for corprate sites not equipment from ebay for your local newsagents please, as i've got to put my name to this project. My advice to you would be to employ a consultant who would evaluate your needs and benchmark qualifying systems to your requirements as every salesman at every large system supplier is going to claim they have the best system for your needs. A matrix score analysis would be the best way for comparing different suppliers. If you require a blank copy of one let me know and I will be happy to email one. I can recommend two companies who currently do work on Manchester city centre CCTV system. BT redcare http://www.btredcarevision.com/ Synetics http://www.synectics.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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