Guest Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Agreed with the above, I think maybe it needs a proper look at? Regards Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tommo Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Hi, I fitted the battery back in cct without the mains supply and the batt was 12.85v. I reconnected the mains and the system has been up for 3 hours without any fault indication. I have disconnected again because I don't want the alarm going off in the night. I ran through the walk tests via the RKP and all the sensors are working correctly. I need to re-connect for a longer period when I am at home to be confident the system is still reliable. I live in Calverton, Nottingham. Is there a possibility that one of the PIR or magnetic contacts tamper ccts can become faulty? I do not understand the principal of the connections, but assume it is a wired loop. It sounds unlikely that this would become unstable but would like to hear any comments about this. Thans for all the feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 If you have wires that have been run under carpets, they may be wearing through, terminals can corode with condensation over the years, especially in kitchens/conservs etc. I presume your system has two seperate loops one for tamper per circuit and one for the zone itself (two wires for each) - this is as oppose to a EOL resistor configuration which uses two wires only for tamper and the zone as such. You could link out the tamper altogether in the panel - but mains voltages are inside and I wouldnt want you to damage the board or damage yourself?? I really would advise you get some pro help in mate>? a proper engineer could have the fault properly traced for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 16, 2005 Share Posted May 16, 2005 Basically, in simple terms, there are 2 loops on the system, one which is constantly monitored to detect cable breakage and deliberate attacks when the system is set or unset. This is the tamper loop. The other loop is only monitored when the system is set. This is the alarm loop. By the sounds of it you have a fault on the tamper loop which could be an intermittent cable fault or faulty device or poor termination. It could be a simple casee\ of finding a cable under a carpet across a doorway which has been worn away and is intermittently causing the fault or It could be a fault elsewhere in the system, which could be a nightmare to find. I've had several intermittent faults which never appear when I'm on site, thus making them a complete nightmare! As much as I hate intermittent faults, I cover the Nottingham area and can assist if required. If you want me to take a look at it then please feel free to call me, either from the contact page on the site below or on 07815 325105. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tommo Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 I have now had a chance to work on the alarm fault, and have found the following:- When the alarm sounds (alarm is unset), it is only the external bell box that goes off. The internal siren is not sounding. There is NO indication on the control panel that there is a fault. I have anyway looped all 4 tamper circuits from the PIR and magnetic contacts to remove that possibility and the fault condition is the same. When the fault condition is on, the external bell sounds for a few seconds, then stops, then starts again, then stops until it stays on continuously. Only removal of the mains and battery will stop the bell. Is it possible that it is only the external bell that is at fault? Bell voltage on the main alarm board when not sounding is +6v and the str is +13.94v. There is also a TR connection to the Bell. Is this another tamper circuit? I have not looped this connection though I do not get an indication that it is a tamper fault on the control panel. Next step is to measure these voltages when the alarm is sounding and possibly do something with the TR connection? Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antinode Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 Sounds like and intermittent bell tamper to me. If the box is old, the tamper switches may be corroded. A bell tamper will usually trigger a full alarm, though this is depending on how the tamper is wired. Try linking out the bell tamper (TR and Common negative, or Hold Off negative) It could also be a faulty hold off connection/water ingress on the SAB module circuit board that's causing the HO voltage to drop off, triggering the bell's own battery. Hope that does'nt sound too techy for ya Trade Member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 I have now had a chance to work on the alarm fault, and have found the following:- When the alarm sounds (alarm is unset), it is only the external bell box that goes off. The internal siren is not sounding. There is NO indication on the control panel that there is a fault. I have anyway looped all 4 tamper circuits from the PIR and magnetic contacts to remove that possibility and the fault condition is the same. When the fault condition is on, the external bell sounds for a few seconds, then stops, then starts again, then stops until it stays on continuously. Only removal of the mains and battery will stop the bell. Is it possible that it is only the external bell that is at fault? Bell voltage on the main alarm board when not sounding is +6v and the str is +13.94v. There is also a TR connection to the Bell. Is this another tamper circuit? I have not looped this connection though I do not get an indication that it is a tamper fault on the control panel. Next step is to measure these voltages when the alarm is sounding and possibly do something with the TR connection? Any suggestions? 55614[/snapback] That reading of 6volt is not correct, there should be a hold off voltage for the SAB which should be around 13V - there is a bell trigger pin which should switch negative to trigger the SAB, the strobe is usually also a negative trigger which should also drop to negative when active. The only voltages whilst the panel is in day mode should be the 13v hold off for the bell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 Heres the outputs in your panel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 Between 0v and 12V you should measure more like around 13v or so Between 12V and EXT Sounder you should measure 0v whilst bell should be off. Between 12V and STRB you should measure 0V whilst strobe should be off. The EXT SOUNDER and STRB pins sink to 0v when ACTIVE to complete the ciruit between the 12v feed and 0v - thus activating either the bell or strobe. You need to make sure your checking your outputs in the correct places! Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tommo Posted June 2, 2005 Share Posted June 2, 2005 Fantastic feedback from this community! Thanks to Dave for the drawing which helped to give me an idea of whats involved. (all following measurements when alarm is unset,wrt 0v, no indication on alm panel that a fault exists) I measured the bell voltage when the bell is sounding and it changed to +6.5v from +6.0. This is between 0v and bell connection. I decided to remove the bell wire to see if the bell still went into alarm mode and it did. STR still measured +13v. TR remained at 0v. The end of the bell wire still measured +6v, though it could not have been this which trigger the alarm. It is looking like a fault in the bell box. What is SAB an abbreviation for? (strobe and bell?) Does -ve in the drawing refer to 0v? many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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