Guest chumbawumba Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 Hello All, I have an optima XM alarm system fitted in my house. I think it was fitted by MANWEB. The alarm has worked perfectly for years, but recently, and at totally random times the TAMPER ALARM sounds from inside the control box. It happens very infrequently, weeks can go by without anything happening. When the tamper light comes on, there are no zone lights illuminated. can anyone suggest a possible fix ? Could it be the internal battery? Please help ! Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister_Dave Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 I would definetley change the battery. Dave Oxendale York based security systems engineer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chumbawumba Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 thanks for the advice. To change the battery, do i simply unscrew the control panel, unplug the old battery and attach a new one ? is the battery a special one that needs to be bought from a specialist ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RICHL Posted August 13, 2004 Share Posted August 13, 2004 You will be better off phoning up a local alarm company to fix it for you as changing the battery is a good idea will not fix the tamper problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chumbawumba Posted August 14, 2004 Share Posted August 14, 2004 You will be better off phoning up a local alarm company to fix it for you as changing the battery is a good idea will not fix the tamper problem. 20171[/snapback] Thanks, i'll get the yellow pages out ... ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted August 15, 2004 Share Posted August 15, 2004 You also need to ensure that if the battery is u/s that the panel has not been damaged by the charging circuit cooking the main board, look for signs of burning on the reverse of the PCB. Better to get a local firm in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chumbawumba Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 I've arranged for a firm to come round they charge £45 for a service and £14 for a new battery. Does that sound reasonable ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dale Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Yep, that sounds pretty average to me. D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian c Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 that including VAT? that seems pretty cheap :0) If you don't know......ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chumbawumba Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 @Brian_C yes that includes VAT. I got 2 quotes. one was £47.50 for the service and £25 for the battery , and the cheaper one was £45 & £14. why, what do you usually pay / charge ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian c Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 I'm just going from am average of the few companies i've worked for... around 60+vat ish for a service...maybe more if it's a callout to a customer without a contract and around20-30 +vat for a battery usually for someone in your position i would have thought £100 all in would be what most companies charge If you don't know......ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Service Engineer Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 £14 for the battery..? Until he gets to the front door, then it`ll be "That`s what prices start from, that size is £25". Even so, it seems a very reasonable price for a full service & battery. ........................................................ Dave Partridge (Romec Service Engineer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dale Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Looks like I will have to rethink my prices as well Rich! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chumbawumba Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Hi All, I'm resurrecting this thread from a year ago... This tamper problem still happens now and again. The engineer who came round changed the battery and tested the sensors but could not find any problems. He put his multimeter on the terminals and got "normal" readings. He suggested that the problem could lie with the bell box but wasnt sure. He left me instructions about how to isolate the bell box from the alarm so that if the bell box was faulty then it wouldnt set the tamper alarm off. I did this by putting a jumper between two terminals on the alarm console. The problem is still around and the tamper alarm sounds about once every two months. The bell box makes a soft whining sound while this is going on. Can anyone suggest anything about how to track down this problem? If not, can you tell me how to disable the entire alarm? We dont need it powered up. Thanks Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavrick_001 Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Hi Neil, where abouts you based?? Seems like the other chappy hasn't pleased you if he's not fixed the problem, sometimes it's more common sense than a meter.... as I've found out. Could be a few things to be honest with you, firstly it might be the panel itself as if you are still on the xm it's getting a little dated and might have developed a fault... I'd had a new one with cracked panel pcb, when you touched it the thing went into tamper. Another suggestion for you... have you noticed any radio users around you (transmitters... antennas) for ham/cb... another possible cause rfi as it's refered to. Or another suggestion is induced ac from mains wiring which may peak from time to time and cause an intermittant fault. I'm not sure we can openly tell you how to disable your alarm on here as that would open a huge can of worms, I'd personally have someone to come out again and take a peak as it's been a year ago now and the whole system would usally be due a service. If the panel is faulty then it's not a major cost to replace it and bearing in mind it's your security at risk by disabling it then really it's a small price to pay for a sound investment (no pun intended)... sound investment. I'd try posting your location on here as I'm sure we'd all be willing to help...if you do get someone out to it then please do mention all the above to them.... if they tell you your talking rubbish or look at you blank faced then they don't know a great deal obviously. Someone on here will be reading the thread and will know a little about your history problems with the system and would highly recommend any of the installers on here, really would be worth checking it out again before binning the intruder alarm idea.... also if it's beggered then the engineer can disconnect it for you whilst on site and save you the trouble, at least you'll know and you win from both sides. Good luck CCTV Intruder Access Control Tony Hughes, Proprietor, TRADE MEMBER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hastings Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Bell box or panel lid tamper I would have thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavrick_001 Posted July 27, 2005 Share Posted July 27, 2005 Could well be bell tamper... is it pyronix or nasty texecom cheapo CCTV Intruder Access Control Tony Hughes, Proprietor, TRADE MEMBER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
breff Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 Id say bell problem, most panels only sound internal on a tamper unless the system is set. The thing that puzzles me is that its linked out in the panel, unless there is some sort of short between + and tr/0v that is not enough to blow the fuse. The opinions I express are mine and are usually correct! (Except when I'm wrong)(which I'm not) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky83 Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 I dont agree with local ham users causing a tamper unless its wireless but thats in my experience lol sounds 99% as though its bell tamper because I was under the impression that any tamper causing the bell to go off is the bell tamper because the bell lid has self activated causing the alarm to go off. Any other tamper should only ring inside as long as the system is disarmed. Put a new bellbox up and problem solved! Trade Member Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 sounds 99% as though its bell tamper because I was under the impression that any tamper causing the bell to go off is the bell tamper because the bell lid has self activated causing the alarm to go off. Any other tamper should only ring inside as long as the system is disarmed. Put a new bellbox up and problem solved! 62721[/snapback] Assuming that it isn't a cable fault and that it is all wired up correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smart Electrics Posted July 28, 2005 Share Posted July 28, 2005 I would say its the bell box NICAD that has started playing up. possibly has either leaked onto the PCP board and the copper sulphate is causing problems aswell as a damaged batt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavrick_001 Posted July 29, 2005 Share Posted July 29, 2005 As an A class licence holder and a well respected engineer the RFI problem is valid. I've been to a few wired systems where the fault has been traced to taxi companys transceivers causing tamper problems and the odd detector fault. Just for you SPARKy I'll explain so next time you don't put a new bellbox up... tell em problem solved and then for the upset customer comming on here to say he wants the system disconnecting because he's had 2 engineers out who can't fix it. Anything conductive of length will act as an antenna, the lenght of the conductor will determin it's resinant frequency.... a determined lenght will be sepcific to an individual frequency..., this frequency will then have harmonics which are 2* the resinat frequency, 3&, 4* and so on, basically multiples of the res frequency. With me so far.... I know your a spark an all (use to be one before I became just too good!!)... right keep up... An alarm cable in an installation will have a fixed length, this alarm cable will act as an antenna... because it is conductive.... it's lenght will determin it's exact resinat frequency and all multiple harmonic frequencies.... if it hapens to be nearby a transmitter which has enough rf power on the resinat frequency or the harmonics of this it can cause the alarm panel to go into alarm. I personally have a gardtec 840 installed... earlier version where they relied on chrystals to control the timebase or system clock as it's sometimes refered to. These chrystals have a frequency as all do.... however the happen to be in the 3mhz band which is near by a ham frequency.... possibly one cause... however, when I use 80watts + rf power from my transceiver my alarm throws up tampers on the data line mainly such as zex expanders, keypad tamper etc etc, my alarm cables will have a resinant frequency, they will pick up my electromagnetic waves (rf... radio frequency for spark who thinks lol in his reply) and trigger off the alarm. This is with 80w & I'm licenced to use 400w and can get permission to use upto 1000w then you see that the point is valid. But then again I don't know what I'm talking about.... as I only have test equipment to frequency sniff and find the frequency causing the problem, only a meter which I can put on the end of the alarm cables to find out there reinant frequency and seeings that I cqan sort it out.. I must be talking rubbish.... oh just one thing, ask dave from ACT meters why he bothers making rfi filters and ask him what a ferrite ring is..... But then again tell me I'm talking rubbish.... yesterday I've only unlocked to gardtec 800 series (800&816) locked engineer codes, gardtec says that engineers can't do it and that it needs to be returned for a new chip... umm I do 2 in a day and tech support don't even know how to do it.... sorry the guy with the problem with his system.... go and waste some money with sparky and have a new bellbox.... give me a call if it doesn't work so I can have a laugh!!! It might be the bell, pcb on panel... it seems strange that you've linked it out and the fault is still there. Transmitting antennas are not always visable, I personally have a wire antenna run horizontal 50ft long and at 10meters away you can't see the thing.... good luck!!! CCTV Intruder Access Control Tony Hughes, Proprietor, TRADE MEMBER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chumbawumba Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 Hi All. I have no idea what bellbox it is. It's an old one, and being on the side of a detaced house, and very high up, it is very inaccessible. The terminal I isolated was the "TAMP" circuit and not the connector marked "BELL". would also isolating the BELL circuit prevent the alarm going off, if indeed the bell is faulty? I'm pretty sure the actual panel lid isnt faulty because gently pushing and banging it doesnt cause a tamper. The RFI suggestion is interesting. No other alarms go off in the road, but perhaps theirs are less susceptible to this form of interference. To be honest i'd like to disable the alarm altogether. I can understand that such information wouldn't be given in a public forum. (Mavrick_001: I am based in frodsham, which is between chester and warrington.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Service Engineer Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 As an A class licence holder and a well respected engineer the RFI problem is valid.Ditto and Agreed.yesterday I've only unlocked to gardtec 800 series (800&816) locked engineer codes, gardtec says that engineers can't do it and that it needs to be returned for a new chipI need to know how, please PM me details. ........................................................ Dave Partridge (Romec Service Engineer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mavrick_001 Posted July 30, 2005 Share Posted July 30, 2005 Frodsham is a good drive for me but have worked up there a few times... there is is cct in the panel for the bell tamper.... however if the fault is at the bell side of things then it needs to be got upto.... will a set of tripple ladders do the trick??? Qustion is really do you want to spend anything on sorting the system out or do you just want to disconnect the lot?? If you let us know what your current thoughts are I'll pm you with deatils of contacting me if required, regards Mav.... Dave.. top secret pm on the way... CCTV Intruder Access Control Tony Hughes, Proprietor, TRADE MEMBER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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