topalarms Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 If it's for THEIR benefit - why were they not already on Redcare or DualCom?I'm not trying to knock how some companies take every opportunity to squeeze that bit extra out of their customers, just don't try to disguise the fact by pretending it's for their benefit and not yours. Because until recently the option of dual-path signalling has not been an economical choice for many lower risk premises. Any improvement in security is bound to be in THEIR interest, to suggest otherwise is foolish and to suggest that installers only suggest improvements/upgrades to "squeeze that bit extra out of their customers" is a rather cynical view of how many other firms look after the interests of their customers. A simple 50 quid IP module will do the job with only a quid or two increase in monthly monitoring cost - which the customer probably won't mind paying as they get additional line monitoring as part of the service. IP monitoring currently is available as part of a dual-path system for those who wish to use it but it is not "a quid or two increase" for the customer it is a substantial increase. Whilst some companies are 'dipping their toes' into IP, many remain very sceptical of its integrity, (they see more problems with their Internet connection than with their current alarm signalling), they also have concerns about 'plug-in' connections and 'interfacing' with someone elses responsibility, i.e. the network and its administrator. That's because there is very little traffic on the networks yet.The UK is 5 years behind the States on this subject and as extensive tests have been conclusive, not speculative, (DIGIS DO NOT WORK 100% OVER IP), every alarm company has to sign a disclaimer with their ARC. Unfortunately, being British - it's not possible for us to learn from other countries as we have the most advanced security industry in the world - right ? When you have your first failure and the ARC gets wind that part of the signalling path was over IP - they will drop you like a hot potatoe. They may be archaic - but they are not behind the door when it comes to defending themselves. If what you say is true, every ARC will disappear when 21CN finally covers the UK. According to BT there are still hundreds of sites on parts of Redcare, which have been switched off but are still 'allegedly' being monitored - would have thought a disclaimer would have been issued in those cases if what you suggest is true! "The Redcare Home Monitoring Product will be withdrawn from new supply on 31 July 2007 and terminated from the portfolio on 31 March 2008. As of 30th April 2006, redcare ISDN service is no longer available for new supply. and from 30 September 2007 the Redcare ISDN service will be terminated." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPAlarms Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Because until recently the option of dual-path signalling has not been an economical choice for many lower risk premises. Any improvement in security is bound to be in THEIR interest, to suggest otherwise is foolish and to suggest that installers only suggest improvements/upgrades to "squeeze that bit extra out of their customers" is a rather cynical view of how many other firms look after the interests of their customers. I'm over 40 - course I'm cynical IP monitoring currently is available as part of a dual-path system for those who wish to use it but it is not "a quid or two increase" for the customer it is a substantial increase. That's my point - IP does not have to be part of a dual path solution. It is a solution in its own right and does not have to be expensive. Whilst some companies are 'dipping their toes' into IP, many remain very sceptical of its integrity, (they see more problems with their Internet connection than with their current alarm signalling), they also have concerns about 'plug-in' connections and 'interfacing' with someone elses responsibility, i.e. the network and its administrator. Valid concerns for a commercial system. Domestic systems should not be too much of a worry though. If what you say is true, every ARC will disappear when 21CN finally covers the UK. Alas - we are not that lucky B) Some of the more forward thinking ARC's like Abel should do very well. Others who think the internet is just a passing fad might be in for a bit of a shock. Free Alarm Monitoring over the Internet from IP Alarms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topalarms Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 That's my point - IP does not have to be part of a dual path solution. It is a solution in its own right and does not have to be expensive. It may not have to be, but in terms of the UK security Industry it is. As for 21CN: At the BT/BSIA technical working group meeting in January 2008 BT announced that the planned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topalarms Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Valid concerns for a commercial system. Domestic systems should not be too much of a worry though. If installers are concerned about Company Network Administrators, they will be absolutely struck with fear at the average Joe with his router in the bedroom! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anguscanplay Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 My company have a simple, low cost, plug and play solution to everything technical that's going on, but unfortunately, what we cannot do is overcome the archaic attitude that prevails in UK ARC's. :'( nothing to do with the ARC`s - list me 6 insurance companies that will accept your product for G3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billythebellbox Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Some of the more forward thinking ARC are using a proper en graded solution called Emizon? De Do Do Do, De Da Da Da. De Do Do Do, De Da Da Da Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPAlarms Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 nothing to do with the ARC`s - list me 6 insurance companies that will accept your product for G3 Angus - it's a grade 2 device - designed as a replacement for a digi. We have a multipath mega G3 solution too, but we are are talking about digi replacements here. Don't forget that currently, a single snip with side cutters renders a digi useless. At least with IP - you get to know about it. It's OK to stick a digi on a TalkTalk line "partially" over IP, but it's not OK to fit a device designed specifically to solve the problem of alarms over IP. That's the UK security industry for you. Blinkered, with its head up its Free Alarm Monitoring over the Internet from IP Alarms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPAlarms Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 are using a proper en graded solution called Emizon? .... which will cost the existing digi customer double or triple what he was paying before - but WTF - it's only a dumb customer ! Sounds like billythebandwagon will be choosing option 3 then - and cashing in. There is a place for Emizon and the others as a replacement for Redcare and Dualcom on high security applications. If these mega systems are adopted as the ONLY option for digi customers to upgrade, then the industry might shoot itself in the foot and start to lose out. That's where the IP module in the hands of a "smart thinker" would get the opportunity to clean up the mess Free Alarm Monitoring over the Internet from IP Alarms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anguscanplay Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 Angus - it's a grade 2 device - designed as a replacement for a digi. sorry my mistake - okay name 6 insurance companies that accept your product period We have a multipath mega G3 solution too, unfortunatly you threw your hat into the diy market sort of turns the trade off IMO Don't forget that currently, a single snip with side cutters renders a digi useless. just in case any PUBLIC member hadnt worked it out yet ? jeez It's OK to stick a digi on a TalkTalk line "partially" over IP, but it's not OK to fit a device designed specifically to solve the problem of alarms over IP. That's the UK security INSURANCE industry for you. Blinkered, with its head up its LOL as opposed to the new boy at the party who wore a tuxedo because the invite said "fancy dress..." and stands just outside the gate moaning and insulting everybody who`s having a good time? BTW I`m still waiting for you to "help.." me sell one, because no ones buying them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest anguscanplay Posted April 29, 2008 Share Posted April 29, 2008 .... which will cost the existing digi customer double or triple what he was paying before - but WTF - it's only a dumb customer ! you already know what my customers pay ? HOW Sounds like billythebandwagon will be choosing option 3 then - and cashing in. sounds like Mr VM got his sums wrong and is selling every box at a loss - or is it one rule for one another rule for VM There is a place for Emizon and the others as a replacement for Redcare and Dualcom on high security applications. If these mega systems are adopted as the ONLY option for digi customers to upgrade, then the industry might shoot itself in the foot and start to lose out. trade view is if a site requires comms then it already is HIGH SECURITY - so now your admitting your product is only right for "not really needing a high level of security..." think about it That's where the IP module in the hands of a "smart thinker" would get the opportunity to clean up the mess a " mess..." that only exists in the business plan of the guy trying to sell a "low end.." cheap as chips solution Mr VM you`ve got trade status so why post in the public forums how YOUR VERY CUSTOMERS (not mine YOURS ) are ripping off the public, maintaining the status quo and holding back the march of progresss when its neither a fair representation of whats happening nor likely to win you many converts Angus I`ve seen some wierd sales strategies but this ones ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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