[Panel Recommendation]

As a follow up to this, the insurance company have stated that no alarm system is necessary due to adequate existing security on the building (High security steel doors with Mico Tindall Locks) and no windows.

 

So it looks like we will be doing a self install. 

 

I have added a PDF of a basic floor plan.  The whole building is 30M long, built with double wall concrete block and rockwool filled cavity.

 

The roof is Kingspan insulated sheeting, 

 

Only two doors provide access to the building.  One is a fire escape with 3 point crash bar and a 1200lb maglock, No external access to unlock this door.  The primary door is only opened by key card or emergency override key.  An additional maglock may be fitted to this door.

 

I have proposed putting door contacts on both of these doors and a PIR in both areas since they are the escape routes.  Would you put a sensor in the large 30m room?  This area has no external access.

 

On the face of it a sensor or door contacts used on the interior doors would not be of much value?  Even if this is a self install do any regulations at either Grade 2 or 3 require door contacts / PIR in this area or could it be left unmonitored?

 

Thanks for any advise.

 

Sport Club Building 2023.pdf

[Panel Recommendation]

58 minutes ago, sixwheeledbeast said:

I agree, comms side is confusing for people not in the trade. We spoke about this recently in trade.

This is why I have purposely been referring to these types of communication as "private reporting" here. IMO It is a better term to describe, non polled self hosted messaging. Using no words related to ARC's or signalling.

But even "proper" signalling have confusing grades. What use is ATS G2 if complete failure is 25 hour response, for example.

I don't think the insurance understand half the time either.

 

As for PSTN switch off, the alarm industry has been preparing for this for a decade or more. The topic just keeps rolling on and on, all the kit is ready most have been fitting it or upgrading to it for a long time.

I expect a lot of users who speech diallers installed and do not know about the switch off are going to be in for a bit of a shock come 2025. 

[Panel Recommendation]

6 minutes ago, james.wilson said:

Unfortunately we as a trade haven't moved with the times, someone seeing smtp as acceptable shows the misunderstanding. 

We know what proper signalling is but it isn't understood. 

OP you should look at signalling as smtp or push or dialler isn't. I feel that the message is lost (intended) 

If your It a mesaage delayed or failed for x hours is useless to us, we need I'd delivered in ms 

 

Yes I completely understand about the delay in message delivery, which the PSTN network handles well, but with the 2025 switch off a lot of stuff is going to become obsolete.

I am well aware of the benefits of an ARC just trying to convince others of the benefits is always going to the hard part.

[Panel Recommendation]

29 minutes ago, MrHappy said:

 

Commercial building will probably state alarm with a level 1 response.

 

Worse case - break in, badminton rackets ain't worth pinching, there's no petty cash as it all credit cards in 2022, kids doing the robbing have the bright idea to play with matches...

 

Insurer won't pay the 45k of damages as you've not complied with the small print of the policy,

 

In 30 odd year of doing F&S I've seen lots of penny pinching which has back fired, I post a lovely example of recent incident in trade

 

 

Doing it once properly is cheaper than doing it twice.

 

The alarm is a few % of the build cost, 

 

 

I will have to check on what the insurance situation is going to be as I am not sure who is actually going to end up insuring this new building.  The building could be covered under the existing insurance for the sports and social club that owns all of the other buildings on site.  If not then we need to insure it and then it will depend upon what our policy requires.  I will pass this information to our committee members and see if they can get some information on where things  stand.

 

[Panel Recommendation]

1 hour ago, sixwheeledbeast said:

 

Nope. All registered through Texecom Cloud now which needs an installer account.

 

Most places like this would need approved installer for the system to be worth anything. I can't imagine an insurer would touch it.

The majority of electricians and IT work I have had the pleasure to deal with has been well below par.

That's not to say yours will be, just you can't learn how to install a system from looking at manuals.

 

I get what you are saying.

 

We may end up getting somebody in if the insurance is an issue as we are building this facility at an existing sports field which already has security gates and CCTV everywhere along with floodlights.  The other factor will be cost as the building costs have already gone up substantially. We may put something in to act as  deterant and upgrade when we can afford it.

At the moment we are just starting to build the walls.

 

 

[Panel Recommendation]

Thanks.

 

One last thing you said that the Texecom Smatcom was for registered installers and I can see that mentioned on the Smartcom CEL-0007 but what about the Texecom Connect SmartCom Ethernet and Wifi Communicator CEL-0001

 

That would appear to use the Connect push notifications and be free?  No registered installer seems necessary or is that not the case with that model?

 

I see that the push notifications may be unreliable.  Can this be used instead of the COM IP module as it is some what cheaper?  Even if it only gives Local access for Wintex.

 

 

[Panel Recommendation]

Can ComIP be used to email alarm activations to an SMTP server instead of sending messages to an ARC or would we also need a GSM communicator to send text messages to committee members should the alarm activate?

 

 

[Panel Recommendation]

Hi,

 

I have just read the Paxton technical pages on how this works.  That would indeed eliminate the need to issue users codes on the alarm panel.

 

As you say let the access control system take over and manage the other panel.

 

Can Wintex now use the SmartCom module to program the panel or do I still need to get the separate Ethernet module?

 

 

 

[Panel Recommendation]

9 minutes ago, sixwheeledbeast said:

DIY would be ungraded anyway, even if you aspire to meet the standards.

You can integrate Net2 into most intruder systems, to suit whatever you want if you don't like rollcall then an arming station.

Makes the panel manufacturer irrelevant. Alternatively, flip it the other way and have the intruder control your access but would be less flexible as an access system.

 

 

Hi, 

 

I had not thought of doing it that way.  So use a push to exit button and install a second card reader by the door configured to trigger the alarm panel key switch Zone?

 

What about import of the access codes per user through software on a TCP/IP connection instead of serial at the panel?

 

What panel and manufacturer would be your choice?  What is your opinion on Texecom?

 

[Panel Recommendation]

Hi,

 

I am looking for advise on a panel recommendation for a small private members sports club.

 

We are in the process of building a new sports facility and was wondering on what people would recommend.

 

I am looking for a system that is hard wired (not a fan of Wireless)

I have installed several alarm panels before in a domestic setting (Scantronic / Cooper Security) but I am not in security industry (I am IT systems)

 

The requirements are probably quite modest, I would think 16-24 zones with the option for zone expanders would be fine.

 

All zones will be wired EOL configuration and even though it will be unmonitored by an ARC I would prefer it be installed to Grade 3 standard even if the best it could actually achieve would be grade 2x.

GSM Signalling would be fine or if I can get it linked to the internet SMTP email alerts.

 

I had looked at and do like the the Texecom Premiere Elite range even if it is getting a bit old by today's standards.

 

The biggest issue I have is that I would prefer each member to have a unique access code.  We have 100 members currently with plans for more when we have the new facility.

I would prefer the panel to be able to programmed over TCP/IP from a software program rather than at the panel.  I know I could use Wintex but I don't think I can import user codes from an external source such as excel.

 

We are planning on using Paxton Net2 door controllers and would like the the alarm set /unset on entry.  I know I could do this using keyswitch mode on the panel.  Unless I have everybody touch in / out then the system will not know if anybody is left in the building and making everybody use a card to get out would probably be considered annoying.

 

I will be working on this with a few other club members who are electricians and fire alarm panel installers so we are not quite amateurs.