Guest heliart Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 So I'm battling with the idea of a DIY wired vs wireless. I know most of the folks on here have a healthy disregard to wireless, but is it really that bad. Most of your replies to a question like "Best Wireless System" are typically, don't touch with a long pole, or they're all ****. Some people must be having success with wireless, and I would really like to know what the real problems are. If the're prone to may false alarms, then that's a big problem. If they are easy to defeat with jamming etc, then again, that's a problem. Would like to hear some success stories if anyone has any. After all, this is a DIY forum, and as it stands the wireless units are by far the most DIY friendly. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zak Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Wireless alarms are not "DIY friendly", as the professional systems require professional knowledge. If you go to B&Q or to AEI you can get wireless DIY friendly systems. No one on here will recommend them. DIY systems cannot take the place of professionally fitted intruder alarm systems and are not insurance approved. DIY systems cannot receive Police response and do not offer the same level of reliability, technology and functionality of professionally installed systems. There is no point asking the same question over and over again under a different title....the answer is the same. GardTec hybrid, Domonial (don't know it), Bosch Abacus RADIO COM, Scantronic (don't use it).......these systems are not DIY. You maybe able to get hold of the Scantronic one....But if you are not an installer I really don't recommend trying to become one just for the sake of doing it yourself on a one off. All alarms, wireless or not can be subject to interference on some level. The problem with radio in general is that apart from relocating a device or receiver, if there is interference in the area then the system will always false alarm. Faults on wired systems can usually be diagnosed more easily and there are more opportunities to rectify the faults than with wireless. To surmise: 1. Professional hard wired is preferable to professional wireless. Wireless has its place. 2. DIY wireless - we are a professional forum and no one will touch that stuff. And I am not including Powermax Plus or ESP Infinite as DIY. If you are thinking of installing them then I would not hesitate for your purposes. But as I have said elsewhere, be aware that you are unlikley to receive technical support from the manufacturer. Zak Tankel - Managing Director - Security First (UK) - www.securityfirst.uk.com Disclaimer: Any comments or opinions expressed by me are my own as a member of the public and not of my employer or Company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest heliart Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 You mention Powermax Plus and ESP Infinite as not being DIY installs, but for the average DIY guy, they are easy enough to come by. Are those two they really that bad? The Powermax+ looks good on paper. I do intend to get a quote from a couple of local companies for a wired system, but it's typically a hit and miss process in choosing from the yellow pages. Also, I have no idea what a benchmark installation figure would be. Am I looking at £500, £700? Also, I really like the idea of having the communications feature of the "DIY" wireless units. Would a professionally installed wired system also give me that type of feature set? Thanks. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zak Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 You mention Powermax Plus and ESP Infinite as not being DIY installs, but for the average DIY guy, they are easy enough to come by.Are those two they really that bad? The Powermax+ looks good on paper. Not sure what you mean. They are both supposed to be good. But they are more advanced than the B&Q typical type systems, and they are feature packed. I did say that I would not hesitate to use one of them if it suited requirements. They are professional systems. I do intend to get a quote from a couple of local companies for a wired system, but it's typically a hit and miss process in choosing from the yellow pages. Also, I have no idea what a benchmark installation figure would be. Am I looking at £500, £700? It is impossible to give a price without surveying the premises. If you know approximately how many detectors and types that you require I am sure you can be given a ball park figure, but the best thing to do in this case is for you to get your quotes and then post the spec and price here and members will give you their opinion. It shouldn't be "hit and miss" from the Yellow Pages. Find an SSAIB or NSI company, or get a recommendation from a friend, or as others have said, find a company that is on its way to being regulated. Getting 2 or 3 quotes, apart from the time it takes, should be time worth spent. Also, I really like the idea of having the communications feature of the "DIY" wireless units. Would a professionally installed wired system also give me that type of feature set? Why not? You can have fully monitored, speech diallers, text messaging....depends on the system though. Thanks. Steve 66570[/snapback] Zak Tankel - Managing Director - Security First (UK) - www.securityfirst.uk.com Disclaimer: Any comments or opinions expressed by me are my own as a member of the public and not of my employer or Company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 So I'm battling with the idea of a DIY wired vs wireless.I know most of the folks on here have a healthy disregard to wireless, but is it really that bad. 66554[/snapback] Most of your replies to a question like "Best Wireless System" are typically, don't touch with a long pole, or they're all ****.Some people must be having success with wireless, and I would really like to know what the real problems are. If the're prone to may false alarms, then that's a big problem. If they are easy to defeat with jamming etc, then again, that's a problem. Would like to hear some success stories if anyone has any. After all, this is a DIY forum, and as it stands the wireless units are by far the most DIY friendly. . 66554[/snapback] problem is that jammer can be made of parts that value £5. to lacate a jammer you need £5000+ equipment. what i can say is that wireless is **** because i can not tell all the public readers _how_to_ jam a wireless alarm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morph Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 problem is that jammer can be made of parts that value £5. to lacate a jammer you need £5000+ equipment. what i can say is that wireless is **** because i can not tell all the public readers _how_to_ jam a wireless alarm. 66572[/snapback] You can however buy radio equipment that will detect Jamming and raise an alarm, same as a wired system that when the cabling or a device is tampered with does. If you buy a DIY wirless alarm you will most likely have problems, there are several good quallity wireless alarms on the market that are more than adequate to protect a property, however they are profesional install only. Have a look at the Honeywell Domonial and the Homelink 75 If you Pm your location, I will be able to reccomend an installer who uses wireless systems and would be prepared to visit and discuss the option/equipment available. Colin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 You can however buy radio equipment that will detect Jamming and raise an alarm, same as a wired system that when the cabling or a device is tampered with does.... Colin 66576[/snapback] Dear Colin, I appreciate your faith in wireless technology but this is like trying to teach capitalism to a communist. What are your options when a jamming alarm occurs? Have a guard sitting on the stairs of your house while you wait for two days that jammer runs out of battery? Tell me what happens when guards goes to jamming alarm and who pays the expences? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zak Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 You are being too pedantic. Next you'll be saying don't install monitored systems with no GSM back up because if someone was determined enough there are ways to disable bits of it. There are flaws with all systems if you know them well enough and are super specialised. Wireless has its place. If you can provide any shred of evidence that burglars in the UK go around to regular residences, find out what systems are installed and then go and jam the equipment before entering....... let's face reality, it is a rare thing to happen. Zak Tankel - Managing Director - Security First (UK) - www.securityfirst.uk.com Disclaimer: Any comments or opinions expressed by me are my own as a member of the public and not of my employer or Company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 You are being too pedantic. ... 66580[/snapback] hmmmm.. really? ... Next you'll be saying don't install monitored systems with no GSM back up because if someone was determined enough there are ways to disable bits of it. ... 66580[/snapback] it is better than absolutely nothing but i would prefer supervised line. ...There are flaws with all systems if you know them well enough and are super specialised. ... 66580[/snapback] with wireless you only need to know simple electronics and how to solder. ... Wireless has its place. ... 66580[/snapback] yes. installed meanwhile wired is being installed. and ofcourse --> bin If you can provide any shred of evidence that burglars in the UK go around to regular residences, find out what systems are installed and then go and jam the equipment before entering....... let's face reality, it is a rare thing to happen. 66580[/snapback] what is the point using codes instead of key's?? i thought electrical keylocks got tampered too often.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zak Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 I have read your posts and interactions with other members with interest, but you can't keep saying the same thing over and over again. In the UK, wireless is a growing market. You are not in the UK. You also have only installed 2 wireless systems. We are not talking about sticking wireless in a Grade 4 building - these are standard residences. If Class VI is accepted by the Police and insurers then it will continue to be used here. As much as I'd love to sell Redcare GSM with every system, the cost is prohibitive. Again, how many tel lines get cut before or during a burglary? Security is always about compromise - balancing between cost, restrictive life style and risk. Zak Tankel - Managing Director - Security First (UK) - www.securityfirst.uk.com Disclaimer: Any comments or opinions expressed by me are my own as a member of the public and not of my employer or Company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secboy Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Wireless always makes for a good debate!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova-Security Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 I do intend to get a quote from a couple of local companies for a wired system, but it's typically a hit and miss process in choosing from the yellow pages. Also, I have no idea what a benchmark installation figure would be.Am I looking at £500, £700? 66570[/snapback] If this is the figure you are looking at, then get a professional company in to give you a quote, and you should be able to get a good system (wired) for that amount of money unless you live in a castle. http://www.thesecurityinstaller.co.uk/secu...lice_area.shtml www.nova-security.co.uk www.nsiapproved.co.uk No PMs please unless i know you or you are using this board with your proper name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 I have read your posts and interactions with other members with interest, but you can't keep saying the same thing over and over again. In the UK, wireless is a growing market. You are not in the UK. You also have only installed 2 wireless systems. We are not talking about sticking wireless in a Grade 4 building - these are standard residences. If Class VI is accepted by the Police and insurers then it will continue to be used here. As much as I'd love to sell Redcare GSM with every system, the cost is prohibitive. Again, how many tel lines get cut before or during a burglary? Security is always about compromise - balancing between cost, restrictive life style and risk. 66584[/snapback] and as i said i might have to go to hell after i die because of those two installed wireless systems.. MAYBE EVEN TWICE!!! A thought that keeps me calm is that some other b******** has to go there until they stop reincarnating.. buhahaHahaHAhaHAHaHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa*****...... . So when police shoots innocent brazilian every one should shoot one..??? okay okay he didn't have a visa but as said before half a pound of lead and nickel is bit too harsh for that..? Yeah, if you want to compromise with your security you can as well leave your childs seatbelts loosen, change your SAAB/VOLVO to japanese carbage can and leave your door open (for the case you loose your key when going to get poisoned in the bar) Watch the language despite the spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 Wireless always makes for a good debate!!!!! 66585[/snapback] njäh... single/multistrand cable is much much more heated.. :!: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morph Posted August 31, 2005 Share Posted August 31, 2005 I have read your posts and interactions with other members with interest, but you can't keep saying the same thing over and over again. In the UK, wireless is a growing market. You are not in the UK. You also have only installed 2 wireless systems. We are not talking about sticking wireless in a Grade 4 building - these are standard residences. If Class VI is accepted by the Police and insurers then it will continue to be used here. As much as I'd love to sell Redcare GSM with every system, the cost is prohibitive. Again, how many tel lines get cut before or during a burglary? Security is always about compromise - balancing between cost, restrictive life style and risk. 66584[/snapback] Well Said Zak, Technology changes and as you have said there are flaws with all systems, you can limit their effects. Georg, your entitled to your opinion mate, but change the reccord, you need a wider exposure to current wireless equipment, in order to make a full and fair opinion of the product at this present moment in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 Well Said Zak, Technology changes and as you have said there are flaws with all systems, you can limit their effects.Georg, your entitled to your opinion mate, but change the reccord, you need a wider exposure to current wireless equipment, in order to make a full and fair opinion of the product at this present moment in time. 66650[/snapback] Wireless technology is still vulnerable to jamming which is eeeeeeeeeeeeasy. It COULD be possible to make reasonable wireless equipment (ie. spark radio system as far as i understand would be quite reliable because jamming that will cause already so much trouble that jammer would be located very fast) but i haven't heard that any manufacturer is going towards better systems. just the same goo in different package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secboy Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 njäh... single/multistrand cable is much much more heated.. :!: 66623[/snapback] Sorry you've lost me there! single for phones,multi strand for alarms there is no debate is there! Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 Sorry you've lost me there! single for phones,multi strand for alarms there is no debate is there! Paul. 67242[/snapback] did you make the search..? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest IM_Alarms Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 You would'nt dream of having a wireless (portable)radio in your car, or portable TV in your house, so why do people think that a wireless alarm is any comparison with a wired version. The design brief for any portable electronic device is all about saving battery life first and performance second is'nt it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 .... The design brief for any portable electronic device is all about saving battery life first and performance second is'nt it? 67248[/snapback] battery life HAS to be taken in consideration when you design a wirefree equipment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zak Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 ........as it does for hard wired systems as well! Wirefree systems signal low battery. They should also be replaced every X amount of years depending on the manufacturer's recommendation (say 3 years for the Bosch). But I don't know what you are worried about - if the batteries die then jamming won't work! Zak Tankel - Managing Director - Security First (UK) - www.securityfirst.uk.com Disclaimer: Any comments or opinions expressed by me are my own as a member of the public and not of my employer or Company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 ..But I don't know what you are worried about - if the batteries die then jamming won't work! 67261[/snapback] THAT is something i didn't take in consideration.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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