Service Engineer Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Due to recent Discussions with certain Alarm manufacturers I am beginning to change my views as to whether I should supply Installation Manuals to users who request them. My view until recently was that If they owned the Alarm System, then they were entitled to the manuals belonging to it, and to an extent i still believe this to be an owners right. But......there are valid reasons why the Alarm Owners should not have access to them: 1: The supply of engineering information to end users can be seen to compromise the integrity of the system - especially in the eyes of the installation company who is under contract to maintain the system. Whilst this is especially true where remote signalling in use, the principle is true for all maintained systems - and can actually affect the relationship between us installers, the users and the manufacturers. 2: Manufacturers will not provide any kind of support for an end user contacting them. If they have a maintenance contract, they should be dealing with the installation company, not the manufacturer. Even if they do not have any contact with the alarm installer, the equipment is designed specifically for professional intallation engineers, so there could be serious health & safety implications for anyone giving any advice to unqualified persons that includes removing equipment covers or getting on a ladder (ie most advice!) - whether this is done by 'phone or in writing (ie manuals). So Here`s the Question guys, and this is aimed at all installers who read the forums as well as Alarm Owners. Shall we as a forum, provide Engineer manuals to the Alarm User....? Please Vote and Also leave any comments. Stating wether your an installer oe Alarm user. ........................................................ Dave Partridge (Romec Service Engineer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Putbinoot Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 I am a user and although not an alarm engineer I was before my present job a spark for 12 years so yes it's my alarm the installation manual comes in the box that I'm paying for so it's mine to do with what i want and the average joe will do nothing with it. The only reason i can see for not wanting to give out the user manual is to increase profit by insisting an engineer has to call, that could also be said for engineer codes. As you may have seen in my fisrt post on these forums I have moved into a house and no install/user manual has been left and no doubt a company would not want to give me their user code, if that is the case they should have a seperate engineer code for every install kepted on a data base, why should a company have a code installed on a bit of equipment that I have paid for that will prevent me doing certain things with the unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Service Engineer Posted October 13, 2003 Author Share Posted October 13, 2003 Your Right Putbinoot, But in your case your probably a competant sparky with a limited knowledge of Alarm Systems, so i`d probably use my judgement and send you the manual you require, but lets say Mr Joe Average asked for the Installer manual because he fancied a go at adding a sensor, or moving the panel out of the hall and into the garage, how would I feel if he electricuted himself, or if his attempt at adding sensors caused a panel fault and his house caught fire..? Hope you can appreciate my concerns. ........................................................ Dave Partridge (Romec Service Engineer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Putbinoot Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 I do Service Engineer but we cannot continue to live in a nanny state. The average joe is more likley to do harm to him/herself or usually to some poor innocent sod driving his car whilst reading a map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dale Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 I agree with putbinout, even though they are specialist pieces of equiptment, they have paid for it and should be allowed to do what they want with it. Recently I wanted the technical document for my PDA cause I wanted to modify it, and HP refused to give it to me... its my PDA, if I want to play with it and break it, thats my problem. It seems to me that we do treat the public as if they are stupid, whilst some are the majority are pretty competant people. As long as we have a disclaimer on the site that says we are not responsible if someone harms themselves as a result of advice, I cant see the problem. Although I can appreciate the concerns, and legal issues involved. D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Karl Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 In my experience as an alarm engineer for the last 15 years, customers should not be given engineering manuals. I have had many call-outs over the years where customers have attempted to alter programmed settings & made a total hash of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Service Engineer Posted October 13, 2003 Author Share Posted October 13, 2003 Im not even sure what the legal issues may be, im assuming the manuals are all public domain and as such are free to distribute, but are they .. ? Also legally does anyone know exactly where I/WE stand as to the regards of any legal repurcussions concerning advice, reccomendations or distribution of manuals..? And where do we draw the line, there`s a massive difference in the programming complexity of an Optima G3 and a Galaxy 512 for instance. ........................................................ Dave Partridge (Romec Service Engineer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dale Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 But does customers playing with panels not earn you more money on the callout front? If they make a mess they get charged. Its like giving someone a computer, and disabling all the features and saying - you can only use Internet Explorer and Outlook, even though its your computer - it would stop lots of call outs to customers, but do you think customers would be happy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dale Posted October 13, 2003 Share Posted October 13, 2003 Can find the legal stuff out for you Wed, as im installing structured cabling into a solicitors, so will quickly ask one of em. D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Service Engineer Posted October 13, 2003 Author Share Posted October 13, 2003 As an Installer all i can say is that we always leave the Installation Manual on-site, firstly because it IS the customers property, and secondly because if we should ever send an engineer not familliar with the panel then he would know a copy is on-site. Obviousely we keep the Engineer code a secret, but we are willing to change it should a customer decide he no longer wants to use us. And thanks Dale, that would be helpful. ........................................................ Dave Partridge (Romec Service Engineer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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