Guest RICHL Posted August 15, 2004 Share Posted August 15, 2004 QUOTE(jpaul @ May 23 2004, 06:29 PM)I think you have answered your own question, the engineer/install manual is designed for the person (whether it be a DIY'er or alarm engineer) who installed the system, its not designed for the end user...(unless they installed it themselves) * I think this statement sums it up really. If you installed it and you know what you're doing you should have access to the manual. However providing INSTALLATION/ENGINEER manuals to customers who have a maintainance contract with someone is a bad idea. especially if it's your own customer! But then any piece of kit supplied with an engineer manual would be DIY kit. The way I see it Ademco have got it right and Gardtec and the rest need to do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratman Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 At the end of the day, its us (engineers) who are trained and have the technical ability to install / maintain security systems. Its about time we folowed americas example and only allowed state certified tradesmen to work on equipment. With so many badly installed and non maintained alarm systems out there its no wonder sirens are ignored. So no, give the end user the user manual, thats all. Engineer codes are confidential, giving them out only compromises other systems. Every one likes to have a dabble at diy, put painting and decorating doesnt wake people up at 5.00 in the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 29, 2004 Share Posted August 29, 2004 Every one likes to have a dabble at diy, put painting and decorating doesnt wake people up at 5.00 in the morning. 22074[/snapback] It does when you stick your foot in a tin of paint!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest park.avenue Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 The end user will usually ask for manual if they feel certain areas of the info can be useful to them. They have paid for it and by law they are entitle to it. They are not asking to transfer the knowledge or experience. If they land in trouble you charge them to correct it. As overall view is that there are few bad installers and when they finish they can only be found out by reading guide, reported to this forum, which is good for everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox UK Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 They have paid for it and by law they are entitle to it.22170[/snapback] Show me where it says that! Red Fox | Hosting Affordable and Reliable UK Based Web Hosting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RICHL Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 The end user will usually ask for manual if they feel certain areas of the info can be useful to them. They have paid for it and by law they are entitle to it. They are not asking to transfer the knowledge or experience. If they land in trouble you charge them to correct it. Absolute rubbish! The end user has payed for a security system, if they want to engineer it themselves they should install it themselves. If they knew the facts Im sure most alarm users would prefer the nitty gritty to be kept out of the public domain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dale Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 By law they are not entitled to it, as engineers we purchase systems, and sell the systems to clients... we dont sell them the technical manuals, much in the same way as radio rentals used to buy lots of TV's and get the engineering guides for TV's but did I (as a consumer) ever get the engineering guide.... could I say to Sony im entitled to the engineering manual for my TV? Nope... cause its their intellectual property and im entitled to use it not play with its insides. And any lawyer in the country will tell you that you are not entitled to priveldiged information that could be used to inhibited or circumvent security systems or processes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RICHL Posted August 31, 2004 Share Posted August 31, 2004 well put Dale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Perditor Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 So if a person says I want the engineer manual or I will take my business elsewhere, do you say no and lose the sale? (I know its an unlikely scenario, just thought it would be a good gauge of how strongly people feel on this point, give them the manual or lose the sale?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter James Posted September 12, 2004 Share Posted September 12, 2004 So if a person says I want the engineer manual or I will take my business elsewhere, do you say no and lose the sale?(I know its an unlikely scenario, just thought it would be a good gauge of how strongly people feel on this point, give them the manual or lose the sale?) 23051[/snapback] I would lose the sale, I want customers that will pay a fair price for a security system that will work when its supposed to and not activate when its not supposed to, I dont want customers that are just after the cheapest deal (they never want to pay for anything) None of my customers have ever asked for the instalation manual, but there again A: we sell security systems not manuals. B: Manufactures obviosly believe that end users should not be given engineering information, as it is much cheaper to produce one manual than it is two. and C: Security systems would not be secure if engineering manuals were available to all and sundry. I never got an installation manual on the cashpoint machine when I got my cashpoint card do you think I should complain to the bank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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