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Scantronix 9100 (fitted 1989) - viper problem


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Hello,

Bought a house with a working Scantronix 9100 system. That was in 2019. Today, I decided to open the main box and found the service paper record inside.

Serviced yearly from 1989 until 2014. 25 years and counting. I want to keep the system. I like '80.

 

Anyway - I am omitting ZONE 3 at the moment. It consists of 6 vipers. Since zone "3" is showing while arming I assume one of the vipers fails.

Without Zone 3 everything works just fine. 

 

I can use a multi meter, unscrew and connect a new Viper but I need to know which one is faulty ;) 

I don't know what is EOL, etc so please don't ask me that. Each of them is flashing red when knocked after couple seconds - this I have checked.

I also have a little switch under the main box that would reset flashing red leds on vipers.

 

I can visit them vipers by one and check with a multi meter but I would really appreciate a little help here as I have no clue which terminals I should measure.

Please help me if possible explaining what read on what pair of connectors would say a given viper is damaged. 

 

If you need any photos - just let me know and I will provide.

 

Thanks in advance.

Artur

 

 

 

 

 

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When was the battery replaced last? There is no EOL resistors on this panel its double pole, tamper and circuit. I would start off metering the cables wired to Z3 removed from the PCB  if they are closed circuit then fit a link in Z3 and see if the fault is still there, it could be a fooked panel especially if the battery hasnt been touched since 2014

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Like sixwheeledbeast said hae the vipers been reset,are any of the vipers got a led lit on it, on the older panels theres normally a reset button try pressing it and trying to set 

Trade Member

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On 30/04/2021 at 22:18, The Arab said:

Like sixwheeledbeast said hae the vipers been reset,are any of the vipers got a led lit on it, on the older panels theres normally a reset button try pressing it and trying to set 

There is no reset button on the scanny  91  to reset the panel you enter the user code twice   and tbh these panels are bulletproof so its unlikely the panel is damaged (its actually one of my favourite panels because of thier reliability) However i would reccomend changing the 7Ah battery inside 

20210505_183528.jpg

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10 minutes ago, Imnotshankled said:

There is no reset button on the scanny  91  to reset the panel you enter the user code twice   and tbh these panels are bulletproof so its unlikely the panel is damaged (its actually one of my favourite panels because of thier reliability) However i would reccomend changing the 7Ah battery inside 

20210505_183528.jpg

Seen plenty arcing and fire hazards lol

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16 minutes ago, Imnotshankled said:

There is no reset button on the scanny  91  to reset the panel you enter the user code twice   and tbh these panels are bulletproof so its unlikely the panel is damaged (its actually one of my favourite panels because of thier reliability) However i would reccomend changing the 7Ah battery inside 

20210505_183528.jpg

 

shock sensors have a 1st to latch,

 

in these primitive pre mobile phone days... alarm men used to drill a little hole in the cabinet & fit a push to break switch which removed power to the vipers making them reset....

 

I recommend getting a proper alarm co. to fit a proper alarm 😉

 

  • Upvote 2

Mr😀 Veritas God

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37 minutes ago, MrHappy said:

I recommend getting a proper alarm co. to fit a proper alarm

Harsh but probably true

Unless however you like retro.

By convention, back in the "good" old days the alarm pair would have been blue and yellow and the tamper pair would have been green and white.

Go to the panel and see what coloured cores are connected to zone 3 alarm. trace those to the cable to see if the cable is 6 or 8 core. If 6 core then there is no reset line however a reset can sometimes be performed by dropping the power (positive) to the line of vipers.

To be honest, back then a resetting line for vipers was a bit of a rarity  unless actually specified by an external designer.

If the cable is 8 core then check which core is connected to the reset switch - often the orange core.

The advise above to put a link in the alarm circuit of the panel is very wise - this will prove the circuit itself. This will also give you the core colours. 

The vipers will be marked on the circuit board. However if not you can work out the connections. Red & black power (very rare to be anything else). The tamper switch is normally identified T- and T+ - it is quite possible to put a meter across and open and close the tamper which will identify the contacts. Only 4 connections left. The reset and latch are normally at the end of the connection bank. It is likely that one will be not connected and if there is a reset switch one will be connected and that is likely to be an odd colour (like the orange of the orange/brown pair.

Once you have worked out the connections of the viper and the colour code you will need to go to each device and find which is open circuit.

The final device in the line will have only one cable in while the others will have two cables in and cores will be jointed - unless that is any of the devices are starred back to a central junction.

I will have the connection "manual" for the viper - in the shed I will see if I can dig it out and send it to you. 

 

There are many variables to look at so it is a case of working through the various options until you can establish what is what.

 

New vipers are available (a honeywell product now) and are a like for like swap out

 

I hope that helps and does not complicate things too much.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Andyha said:

By convention, back in the "good" old days the alarm pair would have been blue and yellow and the tamper pair would have been green and white.

 

no,

 

the alarm pair should be red & yellow -positive colours for the positive loop

The tamper loop should be blue & black - negative colours for the negative loop

 

the new fangled powered devices should be powered by white + & green -

 

however we don't do any of the above !

 

Edited by MrHappy

Mr😀 Veritas God

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Blue/white for the alarm pair and green/yellow for the tamper here, seen every combo tho. 

Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.


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Just now, norman said:

Blue/white for the alarm pair and green/yellow for the tamper here, seen every combo tho. 

 

I like yellow / black for alarm circuits......

 

cause it reminds me of a wasp!

Mr😀 Veritas God

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1 hour ago, MrHappy said:

 

shock sensors have a 1st to latch,

 

in these primitive pre mobile phone days... alarm men used to drill a little hole in the cabinet & fit a push to break switch which removed power to the vipers making them reset....

 

I recommend getting a proper alarm co. to fit a proper alarm 😉

 

Hey im only 16     i can't even operate a vhs player 

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Posted (edited)

For the benefit of Artur1975 the original poster who may not be helped by debates on colour coding of cores, you will see there are multiple options for the cores. I recall, back in the 80's that lots of companies (Thorn, Moderns, Security Centres, Grantly, Acorn, MR, BT, Custodian (and many more)) used red/black for power, green white for tamper and blue/yellow for alarm. However some companies may well have used other colour combinations.

 

The point is that the only way to establish what the colour code used is, is to look and see and meter and measure.

 

 

Don't know why the text above went bold - a copy mistake probably and has no significance

 

Edited by Andyha
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Most of the Modern and Thorn stuff I have ripped out where the colours H said TBH, there will never be a standard even sometimes within companies as they will takeover other systems.

You could argue that the wiring regs harmonised all the colours for DC and our 12v circuits should be Brown +ve and either Grey or Blue -ve depending on if the supply is referenced to earth since then... but where is the Grey conductor unless you use 12c?

Either way colours are irrelevant best to paint with terminal descriptions than colours.

Some old school engineers when cable was relatively expensive would change the cable size and colours at every connection point so what's a orange and brown pair on a 8c maybe blue and yellow on a 4c two devices later...

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51 minutes ago, sixwheeledbeast said:

Most of the Modern and Thorn stuff I have ripped out where the colours H said TBH, there will never be a standard even sometimes within companies as they will takeover other systems.

You could argue that the wiring regs harmonised all the colours for DC and our 12v circuits should be Brown +ve and either Grey or Blue -ve depending on if the supply is referenced to earth since then... but where is the Grey conductor unless you use 12c?

Either way colours are irrelevant best to paint with terminal descriptions than colours.

Some old school engineers when cable was relatively expensive would change the cable size and colours at every connection point so what's a orange and brown pair on a 8c maybe blue and yellow on a 4c two devices later...

On my installs i use

 

green + 

White -

Red/blk tamper

Yellow/blue circuit 

 

I use this as alot of installs i upgrade still use 4 core cable

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