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I don't like this attitude, condescending to rule out everybody else's opinion as childish because it doesn't align with your opinions. Maybe your not but it comes across that way. Remember most

Just asking? More than just asking dude ......   You mean like special brew ? Your favourite?

Seems I was right. Something clearly doesn't add up here, good luck with whatever this thread was suppose to achieve.

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1 hour ago, scrimshanker said:

No thanks norm, I like it here

Pleased to hear it. 

Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.


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8 hours ago, scrimshanker said:

For true detection, video analytics would be my weapon of choice, although not for the faint hearted as the cost is prohibitive 

Really? AI CCTV is cheaper than you think and its getting cheaper all the time the tech is in the basic kit now for some brands.

11 hours ago, scrimshanker said:

Jesus, your English is awful! 

 

And why would you think I don't know anything? I don't have much exposure on the lower end security market you seem to occupy but that doesn't mean I have no idea!

 

AJAX isn't cheap either, orison and texecom are cheaper and what you would consider a traditional system. What are the issues with AJAX, easy to slate something you've never assessed yourself!

 

Its a security forum, I have trouble understanding what some of the northerners are saying. I had the Ajax rep in the kit looked nice enough if you like non compliant one way wireless tat 

4 hours ago, scrimshanker said:

No thanks norm, I like it here

everyone is welcome 

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How is it none compliant tat? I thought it was grade 2?

 

The one way thing is a bit **** though.

 

I was talking about analytics such as davantis or ipsotec, facial recognition such as Hertz, Server based pro systems, although I grant you the Chinese tat does do a reasonable job if you're happy with a bot on your network. 

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8 hours ago, scrimshanker said:

How is it none compliant tat? I thought it was grade 2?

 

The one way thing is a bit **** though.

 

I was talking about analytics such as davantis or ipsotec, facial recognition such as Hertz, Server based pro systems, although I grant you the Chinese tat does do a reasonable job if you're happy with a bot on your network. 

Your missing the point , who grades it lol

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Just received this from their tech support answering the grading and one way two way device comms stated above.

(I think?)

 

 

We've received your request. Thanks for your interest in Ajax Systems!

With release of OS Malevich 2.10, our system will be conformed to the most UK standards (PD6662). This version should be released soon. Currently, our systems has Grade 2 certification.
We can confirm that our system has two-way communication type.

--
Best regards, Ajax team.

--
Technical Support Department

Phone:
+38 (044) 538 13 10
+38 (066) 022 44 32
+38 (068) 597 36 07
support.ajax.systems
Email: support@ajax.systems
Telegram: @AjaxSystemsSupport_Bot
 
ajax-logo.png
www.ajax.systems 
ifsec_logo.png
Intruder Alarm of the Year

 

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1 hour ago, scrimshanker said:

Just received this from their tech support answering the grading and one way two way device comms stated above.

(I think?)

 

 

We've received your request. Thanks for your interest in Ajax Systems!

With release of OS Malevich 2.10, our system will be conformed to the most UK standards (PD6662). This version should be released soon. Currently, our systems has Grade 2 certification.
We can confirm that our system has two-way communication type.

--
Best regards, Ajax team.

--
Technical Support Department

Phone:
+38 (044) 538 13 10
+38 (066) 022 44 32
+38 (068) 597 36 07
support.ajax.systems
Email: support@ajax.systems
Telegram: @AjaxSystemsSupport_Bot
 
ajax-logo.png
www.ajax.systems 
ifsec_logo.png
Intruder Alarm of the Year

 

Graded by who?

 

Two way coms on what?

 

Will be?

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Peter, out of interest why do you call it tat?

 

is it the plastics?

 

the interface?

 

or just the different why in which they see the industry?

 

the fact the keypad has no prox is a massive f/up in my mind.

 

you all say its for the diy market yet you can't buy it on the diy market, well not main stream like Screwfix etc

 

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12 minutes ago, scrimshanker said:

Peter, out of interest why do you call it tat?

 

is it the plastics?

 

the interface?

 

or just the different why in which they see the industry?

 

the fact the keypad has no prox is a massive f/up in my mind.

 

you all say its for the diy market yet you can't buy it on the diy market, well not main stream like Screwfix etc

 

It's avait all over internet and eBay 

 

What you on about dude?

 

Diy

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1 hour ago, scrimshanker said:

Peter, out of interest why do you call it tat?

 

is it the plastics?

 

the interface?

 

or just the different why in which they see the industry?

 

the fact the keypad has no prox is a massive f/up in my mind.

 

you all say its for the diy market yet you can't buy it on the diy market, well not main stream like Screwfix etc

 

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/tat

 

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2 hours ago, al-yeti said:

It's avait all over internet and eBay 

 

What you on about dude?

 

Diy

so by that definition  texecom, visonic, pyronix and Galaxy is also diy!

 

just because you can get it on the internet on some shady site and Ebay, you could say that is the same thing, doesn't mean its diy or tat for that matter!

 

 

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4 minutes ago, scrimshanker said:

so by that definition  texecom, visonic, pyronix and Galaxy is also diy!

 

just because you can get it on the internet on some shady site and Ebay, you could say that is the same thing, doesn't mean its diy or tat for that matter!

 

 

Funny I knew you were going to reply with other models and before typing this , I replied outloud ...

 

We are talking about ajax , we already know about the other models being available

 

You need drugs or.need to get off then , you said it wasn't main stream DIY ???????

 

Stick to the product at hand that your installing 

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5 minutes ago, scrimshanker said:

so by that definition  texecom, visonic, pyronix and Galaxy is also diy!

 

just because you can get it on the internet on some shady site and Ebay, you could say that is the same thing, doesn't mean its diy or tat for that matter!

 

 

Yes anything available on mainstream market is also available for DIY 

 

Although you will have trouble getting support for allot of issues from some manufacturers

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6 hours ago, scrimshanker said:

Just received this from their tech support 

Did you ask them about their 5-7 minute response times?

Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.


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I'd class it as prosumer better than yale response etc but not a 'pro' bit of kit. I would also say that market is merging for the DIY+ market they know they can't get the right stuff from b&q screwfix etc

securitywarehouse https://www.securitywarehouse.co.uk

Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount.

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at last a adult comment, thank you James Wilson.

 

Norman, you seem confused the reference to the 5 - 7 response time is if you run their monitoring software and dispatch your own guards, guessing its a European thing, or at least eastern European 

 

as for my English language friend, what are you on about! ive already said I don't fit this stuff, or in fact any alarms im not in that industry!

 

you comment about support holds true for Ajax as it does for galaxy, you have to be a company to get support. although Honeywell never check what you tell them!

 

Edited by scrimshanker
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23 minutes ago, scrimshanker said:

 

Norman, you seem confused the reference to the 5 - 7 response time is if you run their monitoring software and dispatch your own guards

 

Why would they advertise your response times, they have no control over them?

Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.


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1 hour ago, scrimshanker said:

at last a adult comment, thank you James Wilson.

I don't like this attitude, condescending to rule out everybody else's opinion as childish because it doesn't align with your opinions. Maybe your not but it comes across that way.

Remember most trade contributors have decades of experience screwing boxes of electronics to walls with some effort of providing security and detection.

If this is the type of answer you are looking for then it's a different topic of conversation about the industry as a whole, it's a massive bag of worms difficult to put in one post...

 

1 hour ago, scrimshanker said:

as for my English language friend, what are you on about! ive already said I don't fit this stuff, or in fact any alarms im not in that industry!

 

you comment about support holds true for Ajax as it does for galaxy, you have to be a company to get support. although Honeywell never check what you tell them!

 

You contradict yourself in the same post, your not in the industry but they replied to your support ticket. I'm not surprised BTW.

I don't think any company can truly ignore a request for support it just looks bad, this is where they have to strike some balance and were installers would prefer they at least had priority.

It's always been the same anyone can get hold of any kit, I don't feel you can withhold basic support in this instance. Just like with any other products not in the industry.

 

The issue is you can't teach someone how to fit a "pro" alarm system via a support ticket or a forum, engineers have had years of training or apprenticeships to understand how it all fits together and apply it.

This is were prosumer or DIY falls apart IMO, it's not just about the product it's about the knowledge and application of it. The "pro" gear has also had years of tweaks, specifically for the UK market to make it adaptable for every installation and engineers are trained and get support on it. You can't condense years of installer knowledge on security into a prosumer product or make a DIY install manual.

 

The grading thing your asking about is sort of irrelevant for this instance, you can only fit a graded system as a company. It's the whole fitted system that "becomes graded", the component parts of the system have to conform but the system is graded as a whole. So outside of the industry it means very little unless you understand what each grade means and have knowledge of each standard that parts correspond to. We also have different variations on top of the EN standard in the UK too, we refer back to BS4743 and then we have BS8243 as some examples.

 

The other points Al alluded to is who tested the kit conformed? Has it had third party testing for the UK market? At best it's unproven along side established products.

The UK market is very different and why I believe lot of this "tat" is pitched as prosumer/DIY were I could see a company fitting it in the rest of the EU. It's also pointless to try and break into a market that has plenty of options with a new product that does similar to what your engineers are trained on.

Also any product could claim it's two way but only have one component two way (cough, powermax tat) this is where marketing comes in. Unless you understand how this type of kit functions in a activation, what the spec sheet or marketing says means very little.

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