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Hi guys, hope you’re all safe? I know this has been asked a thousand times and will probably get me some grief for asking again but hey ho. 
what are the regs for an intruder alarm and a fire system sharing a dualcom? I’m assuming a few things, it has to be fire rated point to point seems obvious but how  can the alarm panel be fire rated? Surely that’s the week point? Like drilling a hole in a fire rated door or wall and not using fire stop etc.? Obviously it’s just easier to use two separate dualcom’s but then the cost goes way up. Anyway, hope this isn’t too annoying. Thanks in advance guys. 

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I am fairly certain that if the Fire alarm has to be monitored with brigade response it has to have its own monitoring in order to be fully compliant. If the fire alarm doesnt have to be monitored but you want brigade response thats a grey area. If it doesnt need to be monitored nor does it need brigade response (keyholder only) you can connect it to the intruder.

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The main beef is the intruder alarm does not meet with the standby times required in 5839

 

If you want to share signalling & everything is documented its fine IMHO (dependant on the site)

 

 

 

 

Mr😀 Veritas God

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As above you need the standby times for fire and reporting of fault to the fire panel. Should be dedicated. It can be done but keeping both sets of regs complaint is the issue. ie fault monitoring to both systems

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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, PeterJames said:

I am fairly certain that if the Fire alarm has to be monitored with brigade response it has to have its own monitoring in order to be fully compliant. If the fire alarm doesnt have to be monitored but you want brigade response thats a grey area. If it doesnt need to be monitored nor does it need brigade response (keyholder only) you can connect it to the intruder.

Hi Peter, I think that’s a huge factor, I didn’t think about that. If no brigade response is required then it’s probably a lot more relaxed. Just to clarify, I’m not saying the intruder will signal fire, just that both systems use the same dualcom. 

Edited by tinnitus
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23 minutes ago, MrHappy said:

The main beef is the intruder alarm does not meet with the standby times required in 5839

 

If you want to share signalling & everything is documented its fine IMHO (dependant on the site)

 

 

 

 

I’m thinking the fire and intruder signal separately through the same dualcom. Are you talking about the ARC response time?

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I would agree with PJ the first question ask is if the system specificly requires monitoring for insurance or if it's just for keyholder only.

There are no regs for sharing equipment so difficult to make both systems conform to each others.

When it comes to cost it's a life safety system so if the RA says the fire needs comms then I wouldn't see sharing the intruder being an option to offer at all.

1 minute ago, tinnitus said:

I’m thinking the fire and intruder signal separately through the same dualcom. Are you talking about the ARC response time?

Battery standby

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@tinnitus ask the client whether they a want exclusive signalling which conforms to 5839

 

should they wince offer shared signalling, but arse cover

 

do your signalling if you do not maintain the fire alarm

Mr😀 Veritas God

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Providing its not an insurance requirement (rarely ime) I'm a big advocate of any signalling is better than none. As an engineer I arranged for lots of sites to be signalled through the intruder (paperwork caveat etc included) 

 

 

Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.


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I have a factory, they bounced my expensive controls with radial cards

 

& put a plaggy c-tec + vesda cause it had to be BAFE, but retained my signalling.

 

I ceased it 4 yrs ago &  its never go back on signalling....

 

  

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Mr😀 Veritas God

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1 hour ago, norman said:

Providing its not an insurance requirement (rarely ime) I'm a big advocate of any signalling is better than none. As an engineer I arranged for lots of sites to be signalled through the intruder (paperwork caveat etc included) 

 

 

Ive often sold it as an extra, when the customer already has a fire alarm 

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Same, as an engineer I did well kicking the arse out of the commission with these, paid twice, once for the lead and one for doing the interlink whilst I was there. Got my name in the ADT UK mag twice for the most sales leads along with 2 x £1500 on top of the Std commission. 

Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.


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7 hours ago, norman said:

Got my name in the ADT UK mag twice for the most sales leads along with 2 x £1500 on top of the Std commission. 

 

And a record three times in the readers wives section?

So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands

 

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I know a girl who who conned £5 from readers wives, she wasnt married, just shows how good there vetting process is 

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4 hours ago, PeterJames said:

I know a girl who who conned £5 from readers wives, she wasnt married, just shows how good there vetting process is 

lol

Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.


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On 14/04/2020 at 13:04, tinnitus said:

Hi guys, hope you’re all safe? I know this has been asked a thousand times and will probably get me some grief for asking again but hey ho. 
what are the regs for an intruder alarm and a fire system sharing a dualcom? I’m assuming a few things, it has to be fire rated point to point seems obvious but how  can the alarm panel be fire rated? Surely that’s the week point? Like drilling a hole in a fire rated door or wall and not using fire stop etc.? Obviously it’s just easier to use two separate dualcom’s but then the cost goes way up. Anyway, hope this isn’t too annoying. Thanks in advance guys. 

from 5839 2017

 

It is now common practice for the transmission of fire alarm signals to an ARC to be routed via the alarm routing
equipment of an intruder alarm system. Notwithstanding that the mains power supplies, cable types and cable
routing for this alarm routing equipment might not necessarily conform to the recommendations of this part of
BS 5839, this practice is regarded as acceptable and need not be regarded as a variation from the recommendations
of this standard. However, standby battery capacity and any cable between the CIE and the alarm routing
equipment needs to conform to the recommendations of this part of BS 5839.

 

 

Edited by Amps
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