Eugene's DIY Den Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 (edited) I installed an internal sounder last year which works fine. However I recently discovered that my external sounder isn't working. When I do a bell and light test 0#9, it checks out ok. I can't remember whether I disabled the sounder when I was working on the panel last year, is there a setting in the menu which enables external bell, internal sounder or both? I can't seem to find it. The external bell timer is set to the default 15 minutes. Edited February 28, 2020 by Eugene's DIY Den Quote Talking Tools, a Facebook group for discussing anything tool/DIY related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 1 hour ago, Eugene's DIY Den said: I installed an internal sounder last year which works fine. However I recently discovered that my external sounder isn't working. When I do a bell and light test 0#9, it checks out ok. I can't remember whether I disabled the sounder when I was working on the panel last year, is there a setting in the menu which enables external bell, internal sounder or both? I can't seem to find it. The external bell timer is set to the default 15 minutes. Did you set a bell delay? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene's DIY Den Posted February 28, 2020 Author Share Posted February 28, 2020 13 minutes ago, al-yeti said: Did you set a bell delay? Bell delay is 0. Quote Talking Tools, a Facebook group for discussing anything tool/DIY related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene's DIY Den Posted February 28, 2020 Author Share Posted February 28, 2020 I have been doing some insulation installation, so cables have been moved around a bit. However if a core broke, wouldn't I know about it? E.g a report of a tamper fault or the bell would sound due to loss of 12V, ground or trigger? Hopefully if an internal sounder is installed, it doesn't disable the external one? That would be silly. Quote Talking Tools, a Facebook group for discussing anything tool/DIY related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 What happens when you remove the hold off? If the bell doesnt sound then its a faulty bell, if it does, then the next thing to try is put the trigger wire to 0v if it rings then its not the cable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 3 hours ago, Eugene's DIY Den said: I installed an internal sounder last year which works fine. However I recently discovered that my external sounder isn't working. When I do a bell and light test 0#9, it checks out ok. I can't remember whether I disabled the sounder when I was working on the panel last year, is there a setting in the menu which enables external bell, internal sounder or both? I can't seem to find it. The external bell timer is set to the default 15 minutes. You need to look at how you have wired it all Is internal sound on int bell? External sound connections ? What bell are you using ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 Have you changed the programming of the bell output 1 Quote securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene's DIY Den Posted February 28, 2020 Author Share Posted February 28, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, al-yeti said: You need to look at how you have wired it all Is internal sound on int bell? External sound connections ? What bell are you using ? External bell was working fine. It's an HKC SABB bell according to the installation leaflet, not sure if there's additional model number codes, will check. Internal sounder is wireless, an HKC RF-Echo, what do you meam by "internal sound", the alarm sound? Edited February 28, 2020 by Eugene's DIY Den Quote Talking Tools, a Facebook group for discussing anything tool/DIY related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene's DIY Den Posted February 28, 2020 Author Share Posted February 28, 2020 2 hours ago, james.wilson said: Have you changed the programming of the bell output That's what I'm trying to find in the menu. Is there an option for internal sounder or external sounder or both enabled? I think possibly I disabled the external sounder and forgot to reenable it. I'll check the long form of the instsllation guide (working off the "system startup" menu diagram at the moment) Quote Talking Tools, a Facebook group for discussing anything tool/DIY related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted February 28, 2020 Share Posted February 28, 2020 56 minutes ago, Eugene's DIY Den said: That's what I'm trying to find in the menu. Is there an option for internal sounder or external sounder or both enabled? I think possibly I disabled the external sounder and forgot to reenable it. I'll check the long form of the instsllation guide (working off the "system startup" menu diagram at the moment) No but jw means did you change the output for bell to do something else , or change its trigger so it will never trigger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 It's an output. Get your meter out and see if it fires. 1 Quote securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene's DIY Den Posted February 29, 2020 Author Share Posted February 29, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, al-yeti said: No but jw means did you change the output for bell to do something else , or change its trigger so it will never trigger Not delibarately, but it's possible. Where is this in the menu? If you mean a physical terminal, not a logical output, no I didn"t change it. Do we know which terminal the panel pulls low when it tests the bell? Bell hold-off or Ext bell minus? That test sounds the bell. Edited February 29, 2020 by Eugene's DIY Den Quote Talking Tools, a Facebook group for discussing anything tool/DIY related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 R u using blocks? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene's DIY Den Posted February 29, 2020 Author Share Posted February 29, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, al-yeti said: R u using blocks? No. Just repeating reply above, (edit timed out out and I couldn't save) Not delibarately, but it's possible. Where is this in the menu? If you mean a physical terminal, not a logical output, no I didn"t change it. Do we know which terminal the panel pulls low when it tests the bell? Bell hold-off or Ext bell minus? That test sounds the bell. If the bell is sounded by one of the outputs being pulled low, a broken core in cable would explain why its not working. However if the output is normally held low and floating it triggers the alarm, a break wouldn't cause a trigger. I still dont understand how the circuit works. If I could see a schematic I would understand what to expevt with a meter. Edited February 29, 2020 by Eugene's DIY Den Quote Talking Tools, a Facebook group for discussing anything tool/DIY related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 By default its the ext Bell - terminal but it is programmable as anything so if changed won't work as a bell But it 'could' be a broken core or knackered bell 1 Quote securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene's DIY Den Posted February 29, 2020 Author Share Posted February 29, 2020 (edited) As I understand it from this schematic, SAAB hold on the panel is the power ground for the bell, it's marked 0v on both panel and bell. So if the core from the panel to the bell was broken, the bell wouldn't even be powered. (Maybe it isn't, the LEDs are lit, but I need to check if they are powered separately from the strobe inputs). There's an open collector NPN transistor connected to external bell minus on the panel. Is this driven on in an alarm condition, pulling the external bell minus input on the bell low? Or is it on and turned off when there's an alarm? Sorry for all the questions, but I want to understand how the thing works before I start measuring voltages and doing continuity checks ☺ Edited February 29, 2020 by Eugene's DIY Den Quote Talking Tools, a Facebook group for discussing anything tool/DIY related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene's DIY Den Posted February 29, 2020 Author Share Posted February 29, 2020 Update! Checked voltage between ext. bell + and - on panel and it was 0v. Activated alarm after arming by releasing tamper spring on panel. Bell sounded. Checked same voltages. 12 v this time so ext. bell - on panel must be going low, activating trig - on bell. Quote Talking Tools, a Facebook group for discussing anything tool/DIY related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene's DIY Den Posted February 29, 2020 Author Share Posted February 29, 2020 Further update! Triggered alarm again. Internal sounder activated. Waited to see what happened. This time the external bell sounded about 20 seconds after internal sounder. Checked bell delay in settings and it was zero. Edited it again and changed to 0 and resaved and this seemed to sort the problem. Setting in RAM must have got corrupted, but the delay should have affected both bell and sounders. Very confusing. Quote Talking Tools, a Facebook group for discussing anything tool/DIY related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted February 29, 2020 Share Posted February 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, Eugene's DIY Den said: Further update! Triggered alarm again. Internal sounder activated. Waited to see what happened. This time the external bell sounded about 20 seconds after internal sounder. Checked bell delay in settings and it was zero. Edited it again and changed to 0 and resaved and this seemed to sort the problem. Setting in RAM must have got corrupted, but the delay should have affected both bell and sounders. Very confusing. So you didn't wait for the external bell to sound Never had this issue personally , but yes you probably got confused at some point I agree with that Good your fixed Now can we book you Uber taxi to holiday Inn on bath road Heathrow? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene's DIY Den Posted February 29, 2020 Author Share Posted February 29, 2020 (edited) Still another bit of the saga left! This time I used a stopwatch. When I trigger the alarm using an entry door, and let the countdown timeout without disarming with a code, the bell sounds 30 seconds after the internal sounder (I thought changing the delay setting made a difference, but it didn't). When I trigger by opening an alarmed internal door, the bell sounds immediately, followed by the internal sounder a couple of seconds later. So I guess this 30 second delay is by design to allow a user to cope with the alarm going off and disable it when they hear the sounder inside if they exceed the timeout? Edited February 29, 2020 by Eugene's DIY Den Quote Talking Tools, a Facebook group for discussing anything tool/DIY related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 There is a 2nd entry timer 1 Quote securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 8 minutes ago, james.wilson said: There is a 2nd entry timer You think changed split? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 Isn't the default 30 seconds, but I've never had corruption on a hkc either Quote securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted March 1, 2020 Share Posted March 1, 2020 1 minute ago, james.wilson said: Isn't the default 30 seconds, but I've never had corruption on a hkc either Split entry is zero default , entry is 30 , perhaps he's put 30 also into split by mistake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene's DIY Den Posted March 1, 2020 Author Share Posted March 1, 2020 5 minutes ago, james.wilson said: Isn't the default 30 seconds, but I've never had corruption on a hkc either I thought reentering the value of 0 for the bell delay had made a difference but I double checked and it hadn't so I don't think there is corruption. Quote Talking Tools, a Facebook group for discussing anything tool/DIY related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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