Jay V Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Hello all, Firstly I am not an installer or in the trade, however I feel I am fairly competent/knowledgeable in setting up (not installing) a new alarm system, as I have some experience with my Scantronic 9751 (Stage 1 reset and amending zones, etc) No doubt you are the experts who install these alarms daily so just needed some advice. In simple I was decorating a room and the typically the plaster came off with the wall paper! Now the room needs plastering, so this mean't putting the current PIR into NOT IN USE (NU) mode, with no engineers code, I did the Stage 1 reset and then put the PIR into NU mode. I just felt more comfortable leaving the PIR hanging off the ceiling all connected up in a plastic bag, this way no wires left exposed to short, and also I have no clue about FSL, EOL or resistors in general. Is this the best option, or is it relatively easy to remove the PIR and what wiring is involved (loops/links, etc)? Whilst doing all this I thought why not upgrade the system to a Texecom Ricochet Premier Elite, as the wireless PIRs are easy to place anywhere in the room and remove/deactivate (as I am decorating the whole house this year). My set up would consist of: 1x Texecom 64w (with keypad wired or wireless, Comm. unit for Wifi and internal battery) 1x Door contact WIRELESS 4x PIRs downstairs WIRELESS 1x PIRs upstairs landing WIRED - quite awkward access to change batteries 1x Sounder Ideally WIRED as I don't fancy climbing a ladder every few years to change the battery Talking to Texecom Technical they said the above is fine, but the main question is can I use my existing wiring (I completely forgot to check the wiring when I opened the Scantronic panel so unsure what cable is used, eg no. of cores) to connect the sounder and upstairs PIR to The Texecom control panel (it has 4 hard wired connections and I believe the sounder is separate, so should have 3 connections left free). No doubt The Texecom PIRs that are wireless are very easy to set up but what is involved in the wired PIR and Sounder, do I need to add resistors for tamper, etc? I can bench test the whole system on my dining table first so I know it works but the 2 wired connections are my concern. Now to start a debate, purely based on The Texecom Premier Elite, should I go for the Ricochet (Hybrid) Wireless - as above, or go wired, I appreciate wired is the best option but as mentioned wireless seems simpler but I can get over that convenience if the Ricochet from your experience gives too many faults/false alarms. Many thanks Jay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Jay V said: Hello all, Firstly I am not an installer or in the trade, however I feel I am fairly competent/knowledgeable in setting up (not installing) a new alarm system, as I have some experience with my Scantronic 9751 (Stage 1 reset and amending zones, etc) No doubt you are the experts who install these alarms daily so just needed some advice. In simple I was decorating a room and the typically the plaster came off with the wall paper! Now the room needs plastering, so this mean't putting the current PIR into NOT IN USE (NU) mode, with no engineers code, I did the Stage 1 reset and then put the PIR into NU mode. I just felt more comfortable leaving the PIR hanging off the ceiling all connected up in a plastic bag, this way no wires left exposed to short, and also I have no clue about FSL, EOL or resistors in general. Is this the best option, or is it relatively easy to remove the PIR and what wiring is involved (loops/links, etc)? Whilst doing all this I thought why not upgrade the system to a Texecom Ricochet Premier Elite, as the wireless PIRs are easy to place anywhere in the room and remove/deactivate (as I am decorating the whole house this year). My set up would consist of: 1x Texecom 64w (with keypad wired or wireless, Comm. unit for Wifi and internal battery) 1x Door contact WIRELESS 4x PIRs downstairs WIRELESS 1x PIRs upstairs landing WIRED - quite awkward access to change batteries 1x Sounder Ideally WIRED as I don't fancy climbing a ladder every few years to change the battery Talking to Texecom Technical they said the above is fine, but the main question is can I use my existing wiring (I completely forgot to check the wiring when I opened the Scantronic panel so unsure what cable is used, eg no. of cores) to connect the sounder and upstairs PIR to The Texecom control panel (it has 4 hard wired connections and I believe the sounder is separate, so should have 3 connections left free). No doubt The Texecom PIRs that are wireless are very easy to set up but what is involved in the wired PIR and Sounder, do I need to add resistors for tamper, etc? I can bench test the whole system on my dining table first so I know it works but the 2 wired connections are my concern. Now to start a debate, purely based on The Texecom Premier Elite, should I go for the Ricochet (Hybrid) Wireless - as above, or go wired, I appreciate wired is the best option but as mentioned wireless seems simpler but I can get over that convenience if the Ricochet from your experience gives too many faults/false alarms. Many thanks Jay What's your existing system then ? How many existing wired sensors do you have and where r they Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay V Posted January 21, 2020 Author Share Posted January 21, 2020 Hi Al-Yeti, Thanks for the reply, I have: 1x Scantronic 9751 1x Scantronic 9930 keypad 1x Sounder 1x internal sounder 5x PIRs (Kitchen, Rear of Lounge, Front of Lounge, Office and Upstairs Hallway) 1x Front Door Contact The above is exclusively wired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 You say wireless seems simple but it's just a different solution you still need to understand all the technical side of fitting them. It may seem like screw them on the wall but there a fair bit of positioning checks and programming with a new wireless panel The 64-W has 4 wired zones and the bell is separate, if need be keypads have 2 zones in them. If your system is in a serviceable condition (reliable, maintained, tested and battery replaced as required) then it seems overboard to replace everything for wireless due to a bit of plastering in one room IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 As SWB it seems loony to me to replace any wired detector with wireless just for the sake of it, in a room you want to keep detection! Quote So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 3 hours ago, Jay V said: Hi Al-Yeti, Thanks for the reply, I have: 1x Scantronic 9751 1x Scantronic 9930 keypad 1x Sounder 1x internal sounder 5x PIRs (Kitchen, Rear of Lounge, Front of Lounge, Office and Upstairs Hallway) 1x Front Door Contact The above is exclusively wired. Ok so keep everything that is wired wired and then add wireless units where needed if you can't get cables there or are lazy So you need a slightly different panel that gives you more wired zones or expander wired for panel your thinking Not sure which expander tho , ask an expert lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 18 minutes ago, al-yeti said: if you can't get cables there or are lazy LOL! Quote So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay V Posted January 21, 2020 Author Share Posted January 21, 2020 3 hours ago, sixwheeledbeast said: You say wireless seems simple but it's just a different solution you still need to understand all the technical side of fitting them. It may seem like screw them on the wall but there a fair bit of positioning checks and programming with a new wireless panel The 64-W has 4 wired zones and the bell is separate, if need be keypads have 2 zones in them. If your system is in a serviceable condition (reliable, maintained, tested and battery replaced as required) then it seems overboard to replace everything for wireless due to a bit of plastering in one room IMO. Thanks SWB, I appreciate the PIRs are not a simple swap over nor are they items that can be fixed at any position in the room. I'm not one to go over kill on replacing a unit for one room! lol but as mentioned earlier I will be doing the whole house during the year and no doubt the plaster issue will be the same as its a 1930's house with loose plaster on numerous walls behind the wall paper. From previous experience with numerous plasterers, whilst working, the room can get quite messy and wet/damp. I just want a 'simple' way to pull the detector out in the interim, hence the idea of the wireless system. 1 hour ago, datadiffusion said: As SWB it seems loony to me to replace any wired detector with wireless just for the sake of it, in a room you want to keep detection! Thanks for your opinion, hopefully my point above will better explain my reasoning. 48 minutes ago, al-yeti said: Ok so keep everything that is wired wired and then add wireless units where needed if you can't get cables there or are lazy So you need a slightly different panel that gives you more wired zones or expander wired for panel your thinking Not sure which expander tho , ask an expert lol Al-Yeti, thanks again, I did consider a wired system as an option with a wireless extender but if the majority of PIRs are wired then there's no point (for me any way) having wireless extenders as the cost will sky rocket due to the extra equipment. I appreciate everyones opinion, so thanks, however my questions are more about experience of the Ricochet system, does it cause false alarms or have other commons issues/faults due to it being wireless and how to wire up a Texecom PIR (standard pet friendly not the Dual one with Microwave sensing) to The Texecom 64w control panel, basically a detailed guide on wiring both ends. With this information, I can make a better informed decisions as A) I will get an idea of how much out of my depths I am attempting to wire this up, meaning I may need a professional installer and B) is the wireless Texecom Ricochet as reliable as the wired Premier Elite version, looking for advice from the trade who has experience in both systems and not hypothetical theories, as someones opinion of Yales wireless system could be negative and not give a accurate reflection of Texecoms' technology. Again many thanks for all your input so far guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 12 minutes ago, Jay V said: Thanks SWB, I appreciate the PIRs are not a simple swap over nor are they items that can be fixed at any position in the room. I'm not one to go over kill on replacing a unit for one room! lol but as mentioned earlier I will be doing the whole house during the year and no doubt the plaster issue will be the same as its a 1930's house with loose plaster on numerous walls behind the wall paper. From previous experience with numerous plasterers, whilst working, the room can get quite messy and wet/damp. I just want a 'simple' way to pull the detector out in the interim, hence the idea of the wireless system. Thanks for your opinion, hopefully my point above will better explain my reasoning. Al-Yeti, thanks again, I did consider a wired system as an option with a wireless extender but if the majority of PIRs are wired then there's no point (for me any way) having wireless extenders as the cost will sky rocket due to the extra equipment. I appreciate everyones opinion, so thanks, however my questions are more about experience of the Ricochet system, does it cause false alarms or have other commons issues/faults due to it being wireless and how to wire up a Texecom PIR (standard pet friendly not the Dual one with Microwave sensing) to The Texecom 64w control panel, basically a detailed guide on wiring both ends. With this information, I can make a better informed decisions as A) I will get an idea of how much out of my depths I am attempting to wire this up, meaning I may need a professional installer and B) is the wireless Texecom Ricochet as reliable as the wired Premier Elite version, looking for advice from the trade who has experience in both systems and not hypothetical theories, as someones opinion of Yales wireless system could be negative and not give a accurate reflection of Texecoms' technology. Again many thanks for all your input so far guys. Ricochet can habe it's difficulties to setup , although those that install it regular have less issues Also with respect, if majority sensors are wired , cost of a hybrid system now is better , but seems you missed the point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay V Posted January 21, 2020 Author Share Posted January 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, al-yeti said: Ricochet can habe it's difficulties to setup , although those that install it regular have less issues Also with respect, if majority sensors are wired , cost of a hybrid system now is better , but seems you missed the point Fair point, thanks for that! I am no professional so this is all fairly new to me and no doubt I will learn of other options/ideas, any input is greatly appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 I generally fit Texecom controls and have no issues but I have fitted a lot so know how it works. Ricochet is stable if installed correctly if not you will have endless issues. If I where looking at the job I would probably replace each wired sensor with a new wired sensor as you do each room. It wouldn't matter if the old one ended up, dangling if omitted or programmed out, covered in gunk or whatever in the meantime. Would take an engineer 30 minutes including drinking a brew and checking over the rest of the system. If when checking over the system he finds something untoward you will know what the future is for the current system and if it's worth investing in radio or new wiring/panel/bell etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHappy Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 I suspect you'll have issue with your texecom radio stuff, get a man to do it for you & he'll have to sort the faults out Quote Mr Veritas God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay V Posted January 21, 2020 Author Share Posted January 21, 2020 Thank you gents, it defo sounds like the wired is the best option for a better connection, I was under the assumption the Ricochet had a mesh like network so the wireless devices can extend the signal just in case the panel is too far away. My home is not massive but it is slightly larger than an average 3 bed house, so if radio transmission is iffy, then i rather not take the risk or having to invest in several repeaters/extenders to boost the signal. On the basis that the whole system is wired, would it be safe to say my current wiring will be good enough to support a new system like Premier Elite? Running new wires can be done but its a long process as the original installer has run the cables in such a strange manner that the old cables can not be pulled through and i would need to lift floor boards in every room upstairs (all new wooden floor was installed some years so its not a quick job) and create a new route through the joists. I don’t mind paying someone to install say the Premier Elite but it would be good to know if the old cables can be used or not so I know what prep work i have get done before the engineer can do the install. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 Wired is always a better option not from a signal POV but from cost and maintenance. There is no reason the Texecom would have issues if installed correctly. If cables are installed properly they should be fine if good quality cable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 1 hour ago, Jay V said: Thank you gents, it defo sounds like the wired is the best option for a better connection, I was under the assumption the Ricochet had a mesh like network so the wireless devices can extend the signal just in case the panel is too far away. My home is not massive but it is slightly larger than an average 3 bed house, so if radio transmission is iffy, then i rather not take the risk or having to invest in several repeaters/extenders to boost the signal. On the basis that the whole system is wired, would it be safe to say my current wiring will be good enough to support a new system like Premier Elite? Running new wires can be done but its a long process as the original installer has run the cables in such a strange manner that the old cables can not be pulled through and i would need to lift floor boards in every room upstairs (all new wooden floor was installed some years so its not a quick job) and create a new route through the joists. I don’t mind paying someone to install say the Premier Elite but it would be good to know if the old cables can be used or not so I know what prep work i have get done before the engineer can do the install. Wired yes , but a panel that supports wireless is best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay V Posted January 22, 2020 Author Share Posted January 22, 2020 Ok brilliant, thank you both for your input. Few questions on sound equipment, I have been told The Texecom 64w has a internal speaker, is this just good for chimes or can it be used as internal sounder? or is a seperate sounder recommended? Also if I get a Texecom box which does not have an internal sounder which sounder is recommended? Will the sounder sit inside the panel, as for example, the Kinetic Twin Peizo Sound bomb looks a bit a ugly/unprotected to be sitting by itself exposed so assuming it goes inside the panel? Many thanks in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 50 minutes ago, Jay V said: Ok brilliant, thank you both for your input. Few questions on sound equipment, I have been told The Texecom 64w has a internal speaker, is this just good for chimes or can it be used as internal sounder? or is a seperate sounder recommended? Also if I get a Texecom box which does not have an internal sounder which sounder is recommended? Will the sounder sit inside the panel, as for example, the Kinetic Twin Peizo Sound bomb looks a bit a ugly/unprotected to be sitting by itself exposed so assuming it goes inside the panel? Many thanks in advance. Internal Sounders better to fit separately imo , out of reach ,and o e right outside your bed room When it goes off , you jump out of bed like a lunatic and the kids needs a nappy change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted January 22, 2020 Share Posted January 22, 2020 I would recommend to ditch the internal speaker and use an extension speaker (loads of different styles - 16ohm) in a central area preferably on the entry route. Don't use a sound bomb! Volumes can be programmed via the panel, Also if your definite on this new Texecom system fit the wired version you could always add wireless module after if you wish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay V Posted January 23, 2020 Author Share Posted January 23, 2020 Thanks for the comments on the sounder and also the note on the volume control, after doing some calculations and considering the system generally should be low maintenance, I think I will opt for wired and wireless expander. Do the Texecom panels come with majority wired and a wireless module combined or am I looking at two separate units? Many thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 It's onboard LIVE or modular. Sounds like you have a wired system anyway. I'd probably stick a PE48 in if you want a simple-ish changeover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 (edited) On 21/01/2020 at 14:48, Jay V said: as I have some experience with my Scantronic 9751 (Stage 1 reset and amending zones, etc) The Texecom stuff is good, no mistake, if I was starting from scratch, I'd use it. The other alternative panel is an Eaton (Scantronic) ion 40H, you'll get 10 wired zones, wireless on board, free self monitoring via web app and some familiarity with the 9751. As ever, the kicker is that the wireless is mostly only 1-way, but it depends what you want to do with it, if you just want to add a few wireless fobs, these are 2 way anyway, as are smoke detectors you can add on, for the odd extra door contact or window vibe, e.g. additional perimeter stuff the 1 way thing annoys me greatly but doesn't put me off using it. Edited January 23, 2020 by datadiffusion Quote So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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