neon555 Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 Hi guys, I'm currently in the process of upgrading my home alarm system to a grade 3 system. It is a Texecom Premier Elite 48. I will be posting further questions regarding PIR sensors, but that Isn't for this post. PLEASE do not question the upgrade - just trust it is needed (and I do have a professional I consult, however even he is unsure on this issue). I am wondering - if the system is grade 3, is it still allowed to be a fire alarm system or am I required to disconnect the smoke detectors, and install a separate fire alarm system? Many thanks for your input, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHappy Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 Unless your "grade 3" alarm is connected to an arc is not grade 3 Quote Mr Veritas God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 Fire alarm systems need to conform to BS5839 which intruder alarm systems on there own aren't designed for. A graded intruder system is only graded by it's lowest grade component if you have no signalling it's impossible to be G3 even with all Grade 3 components Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 43 minutes ago, neon555 said: Hi guys, I'm currently in the process of upgrading my home alarm system to a grade 3 system. It is a Texecom Premier Elite 48. I will be posting further questions regarding PIR sensors, but that Isn't for this post. PLEASE do not question the upgrade - just trust it is needed (and I do have a professional I consult, however even he is unsure on this issue). I am wondering - if the system is grade 3, is it still allowed to be a fire alarm system or am I required to disconnect the smoke detectors, and install a separate fire alarm system? Many thanks for your input, John So do you mean this is a DIY install or house bashers install and need it to be installed to grade 3 spec? And as mentioned it maybe grade three equipment and installation but obviously needs grade 3 Comms to be fully compliant to the gorilla world ? 25 minutes ago, MrHappy said: Unless your "grade 3" alarm is connected to an arc is not grade 3 Can it be keyholder only on grade 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted July 21, 2019 Share Posted July 21, 2019 47 minutes ago, MrHappy said: Unless your "grade 3" alarm is connected to an arc is not grade 3 It also has to be certified and under a service contract by an accredited company otherwise its just grade 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 5 hours ago, PeterJames said: It also has to be certified and under a service contract by an accredited company otherwise its just grade 1 None of this makes sense you gorillas , installs can be fitted to grade 3 spec it's only the insurers you need to worry about and if you don't need them , no reason why not to install to that level of you want to So can grade 3 be keyholder only ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterJames Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 4 hours ago, al-yeti said: None of this makes sense you gorillas , installs can be fitted to grade 3 spec it's only the insurers you need to worry about and if you don't need them , no reason why not to install to that level of you want to So can grade 3 be keyholder only ? No, grade 3 is Monitored with Police response and in order to do this has to be under a service contract with an accredited company. The grading is always defined by the lowest denominator and so that would be defined by the service contract, none = grade 1. As you know a grade 3 is not in any way necessarily any more secure than a well installed grade 2 system. The door contacts are the biggest downfall to the reliability of grade 3. Personally I would always the necessity for full grade 3. The idea of grading was so that there was more clarity between the insurance companies and the installers. It didnt really work because insurers who do not understand the technology will always take the highest number to be the best, which you and I both know is not the idea of grading. The problem is not all installers are the same and so the insure cannot trust the installer to install the correct devices in the right environment, because unfortunately some are clueless, or employ clueless surveyors. Sad when you think of it, this industry could be so much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 Smoke detection in yhis case would be classed as ancillary devices and would not need to be disconnected. However they are not the same as a 5839 fire alarm. But i have smokes and Co on my own alarm 1 Quote securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 31 minutes ago, PeterJames said: No, grade 3 is Monitored with Police response and in order to do this has to be under a service contract with an accredited company. The grading is always defined by the lowest denominator and so that would be defined by the service contract, none = grade 1. As you know a grade 3 is not in any way necessarily any more secure than a well installed grade 2 system. The door contacts are the biggest downfall to the reliability of grade 3. Personally I would always the necessity for full grade 3. The idea of grading was so that there was more clarity between the insurance companies and the installers. It didnt really work because insurers who do not understand the technology will always take the highest number to be the best, which you and I both know is not the idea of grading. The problem is not all installers are the same and so the insure cannot trust the installer to install the correct devices in the right environment, because unfortunately some are clueless, or employ clueless surveyors. Sad when you think of it, this industry could be so much better. You alarm gorillas know your stuff eh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datadiffusion Posted July 22, 2019 Share Posted July 22, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, sixwheeledbeast said: Fire alarm systems need to conform to BS5839 which intruder alarm systems on there own aren't designed for. I'm sure you all know this, but the benefit of the OP, it IS at a push possible for an intruder based system to comply under BS5939-6 though as Grade C, Quote System consisting of fire detectors and alarm sounders (which may be domestic smoke alarms) connected to a common power supply, comprising normal mains and stand-by supply, with central control equipment. The PSU standby times are onerous and would be unlikely to be met by anything other than (in my world) an I-On 160 with twin 17aH batteries on board. But it does basically allow an IAS (or anything really, other than the standby length it does not specify the CCE must meet any EN or be a certain type of equipment as that would be Grade B IIRC). I've previously had IAS based systems, with standard batteries e.g shorter standby on new builds waived through by BC on the basis of first years monitoring and cover included, so any faults will be acted upon, not ignored. As far as fire on a Grade 3, leaving out the issue of 'why is OP doing DIY to G3' I don't see the issue with this as it does not form part of the intrusion detection, it's surely an ancilliary same as connecting a freezer or other technical alarm? Edited July 22, 2019 by datadiffusion Quote So, I've decided to take my work back underground.... to stop it falling into the wrong hands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.