Eugene's DIY Den Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Generally I twist strands together, solder, fold back flat, slide heat shrink over each core and then heatshrink over the whole sheath. So the joint is fairly secure and loose connections are unlikely and it looks neat. Is there any crimp device for joining cables that would mean less work? Something like a 6 way butt/splice or one that doesn't require insulation to be stripped (IDC)? Or is it just as handy to do it my way if I'm not going to be jointing regularly? Quote Talking Tools, a Facebook group for discussing anything tool/DIY related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Terminal blocks will do otherwise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specialist Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 (edited) Hi: Look for closed end wire splices on eBay. Simple to install, just strip and twist then crimp on cap. That's it, job done. There are Small Tell filled (Waterproof) IDC connectors available, originally made for Telecom work & need a special crimping tool to do the job properly. Some people don't agree with using them for stranded wires, but we used to be supplied with big boxes of them and to be honest I've never had any problems with them. Again available along with the tool, via eBay at quite good prices. Have also seen a lot of jobs where the Red butt splice crimps have been used. Hope that helps: Andy Edited May 1, 2019 by Specialist Quote Customers Love us, Intruders Hate us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 11 minutes ago, Specialist said: Hi: Look for closed end wire splices on eBay. Simple to install, just strip and twist then crimp on cap. That's it, job done. There are Small Tell filled (Waterproof) IDC connectors available, originally made for Telecom work & need a special crimping tool to do the job properly. Some people don't agree with using them for stranded wires, but we used to be supplied with big boxes of them and to be honest I've never had any problems with them. Again available along with the tool, via eBay at quite good prices. Have also seen a lot of jobs where the Red butt splice crimps have been used. Hope that helps: Andy No man this is worst solution They designed for telephone "solid" single core Even house bashers wouldn't use them , gel crimps are worse than twist and tape , and twist and tape works 12 minutes ago, Specialist said: Hi: Look for closed end wire splices on eBay. Simple to install, just strip and twist then crimp on cap. That's it, job done. There are Small Tell filled (Waterproof) IDC connectors available, originally made for Telecom work & need a special crimping tool to do the job properly. Some people don't agree with using them for stranded wires, but we used to be supplied with big boxes of them and to be honest I've never had any problems with them. Again available along with the tool, via eBay at quite good prices. Have also seen a lot of jobs where the Red butt splice crimps have been used. Hope that helps: Andy You must be an IT man..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specialist Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 (edited) Al: I know what Gel crimps are for & no mate not IT, large national installer. Boxes of Gel crimps were what we had provided for repairing & extending alarm cables over several large sites where the cables had been vandalised and couldn't be replaced due to finished walls / floors & ceilings. Many of these were used, with as far as I know no adverse effects either in the short or long term. Not my preferred way of doing it but they do the job. Edited May 1, 2019 by Specialist Quote Customers Love us, Intruders Hate us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 You can't beat solder and heatshrink, both from function or aesthetics. I wouldn't recommend butt splices at all just asking for trouble, if nationals use them or not that's up to them but your just asking for high res issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 What he said ^^ Quote Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specialist Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 (edited) 26 minutes ago, sixwheeledbeast said: You can't beat solder and heatshrink, both from function or aesthetics. I wouldn't recommend butt splices at all just asking for trouble, if nationals use them or not that's up to them but your just asking for high res issues. Never seen them used as butt splices on alarm cables. They strip & twist the conductors together, put the twisted joint into one end of the butt connector then crimp as well. Wasn't talking about the national using butt splices, that was the Gel IDC crimps. Edited May 1, 2019 by Specialist Quote Customers Love us, Intruders Hate us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specialist Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) On 01/05/2019 at 18:04, sixwheeledbeast said: You can't beat solder and heatshrink, both from function or aesthetics. No argument from me, my preferred way wherever possible. Quote I wouldn't recommend butt splices at all just asking for trouble, if nationals use them or not that's up to them but your just asking for high res issues. Why would using a butt connector, be asking for high resistance issues ?. Edited May 3, 2019 by Specialist Quote Customers Love us, Intruders Hate us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 9 times out of 10 they are not used correctly and the cable is not crimped firmly, most other connector types reduce the cross sectional contact area hence the resistance issues. Soldering and heat shrink is where it's at... Quote Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 Exactly, any crimped connection has only friction to maintain a good connection (lowest resistance), even with the friction of the copper twisted together. Issue with crimped type connections is they rely on exact pressure over the crimps surface area to have perfect friction, too much pressure or unequal you get conductor damage and too little you get a poor/loose connection and insulator. Those generally have engineers put there side cutters through them and pushed into a passive, no consideration of a perfect connection. The same issue applies to your red yellow blue crimps however, I would only ever use a proper crimping tool with these for the connect conductor size. This provides the perfect crimp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specialist Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 Yes but every time I've seen them used, they weren't actually the connection. The connection twisted & folded was placed inside one end of the connector more as an insulator, yes they were crimped in place but to hold them in place. Makes a better insulator than tape. Quote Customers Love us, Intruders Hate us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specialist Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, sixwheeledbeast said: Exactly, any crimped connection has only friction to maintain a good connection (lowest resistance), even with the friction of the copper twisted together. Issue with crimped type connections is they rely on exact pressure over the crimps surface area to have perfect friction, too much pressure or unequal you get conductor damage and too little you get a poor/loose connection and insulator. Those generally have engineers put there side cutters through them and pushed into a passive, no consideration of a perfect connection. The same issue applies to your red yellow blue crimps however, I would only ever use a proper crimping tool with these for the connect conductor size. This provides the perfect crimp. Wasn't actually talking about crimps in passives (Don't think I've ever seen someone do that), where I've seen red butt connectors being used is inside Junction boxes and control panels. Wouldn't call someone using cutters or pliers on crimps an engineer to be honest, I'm a great believer in using the right tool for the job especially with crimps. You can also get high resistance joints with soldered connections if not done properly & when hidden inside heat shrink, they can be a total pig to find. Edited May 3, 2019 by Specialist Quote Customers Love us, Intruders Hate us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 7 minutes ago, Specialist said: Wasn't actually talking about crimps in passives (Don't think I've ever seen someone do that), where I've seen red butt connectors being used is inside Junction boxes and control panels. Wouldn't call someone using cutters or pliers on crimps an engineer to be honest, I'm a great believer in using the right tool for the job especially with crimps. You can also get high resistance joints with soldered connections if not done properly & when hidden inside heat shrink, they can be a total pig to find. Blagger Stick to twist and tape man your better off lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specialist Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 (edited) Sorry fella: Never used twist & tape, I've never owned a horse or Stetson. By the way, the Longman dictionary definition of a blagger is someone who lies cleverly to get what they want. Don't appreciate that. I don't need to lie to people, I tell people what I think whether it pleases or offends. Edited May 3, 2019 by Specialist 1 Quote Customers Love us, Intruders Hate us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 2 hours ago, Specialist said: Sorry fella: Never used twist & tape, I've never owned a horse or Stetson. By the way, the Longman dictionary definition of a blagger is someone who lies cleverly to get what they want. Don't appreciate that. I don't need to lie to people, I tell people what I think whether it pleases or offends. To serious man lol Although blagger has many definitions..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted May 3, 2019 Share Posted May 3, 2019 I have never seen a high resistance issue on a soldered cable connection, whereas I have been to a few call outs (takeovers) for bad closed splices. Taking connection quality aside you still can't improve on soldering and shrink when it comes to the size of the completed connection either. There's also moisture protection with solder and shrink... it takes a little more time but if you must joint a cable it's worth the time to do it the best way possible. The ideal solution is replace the cable where possible obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specialist Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, sixwheeledbeast said: I have never seen a high resistance issue on a soldered cable connection, whereas I have been to a few call outs (takeovers) for bad closed splices. Taking connection quality aside you still can't improve on soldering and shrink when it comes to the size of the completed connection either. There's also moisture protection with solder and shrink... it takes a little more time but if you must joint a cable it's worth the time to do it the best way possible. The ideal solution is replace the cable where possible obviously. As I already said, soldered & shrunk is the best way to go and what I prefer, but I've also seen badly made soldered connections that over a period of time have gone high resistance. It doesn't matter whether it's a soldered or crimped joint, if it's not done properly then it's going to cause problems eventually. Edited May 4, 2019 by Specialist Quote Customers Love us, Intruders Hate us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specialist Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 People: The op asked for alternatives to soldered and shrunk cable joints & that's exactly what I gave him, no more & no less. If that offends some people's sensibilities then so be it. As far as I'm concerned that's it, end of story. To carry the the subject on won't serve any useful purpose. Quote Customers Love us, Intruders Hate us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 There's no offence. People come here asking for advice and opinions from people in the trade, if people here think there is no better alternative then why would you not explain your reasoning to that? I read the post as "is there a better way", answer "no, and here's why". In the many years being here I can say we often have to decode "XY problems" from people on the public side. Maybe this comes across as answering a question with a question but you can only give advise on what you know for certain. We haven't even got into an argument about why you wouldn't use a tampered junction box but we don't know the full picture, for example. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted May 4, 2019 Share Posted May 4, 2019 7 hours ago, Specialist said: People: The op asked for alternatives to soldered and shrunk cable joints & that's exactly what I gave him, no more & no less. If that offends some people's sensibilities then so be it. As far as I'm concerned that's it, end of story. To carry the the subject on won't serve any useful purpose. Your just to hardcore man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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