Shaun Kamal Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 Hi all, My name is Shaun and I come in need of some desperate help! In January 2017, our retail premises were broken into via a 24 guard door (which should have notified the Key holder) and then the intruders walked passed a couple of PIRs (which should have called the Police). None of these two notifications took place. The burglars then tore the Galaxy 18 off the wall to stop it communicating via GSM. This allowed the intruders to get away with over £200k of stock somehow with no one knowing. We only found out the following morning that there was a break-in and notified the Police. Although the NVR was taken, the Galaxy panel was left behind. So, I'm hoping that there is someone out there that has the tools or software to read the ROM on the panel to find out actually what happened. I've attached an image of the PCB if that helps at all. I'm able to deliver the panel anywhere within the Midlands (or further if need be) and I'm happy to pay for anyone's time and service. Thanks! Shaun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 Hi Shaun, Your maintainer or insurer should be able to arrange this. eta, the chances are the log will have over written in any case as you couldn't turn it off... Quote Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 From my experience of these types of events, it would be up to the insurance company to investigate and compile a report. The insurance or normally a loss adjuster will compile evidence to determine want happened and why no response was made by the police or ARC. If the panel has been powered down and stored since the break in then the system log would be intact and could be interrogated with master user or engineer access. This is something you need to liaise with the original maintainer and insurance about before proceeding any further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 From experience of this type of incident the log will be full of events as the system won't have been disarmed. Quote Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 2 hours ago, Shaun Kamal said: Hi all, My name is Shaun and I come in need of some desperate help! In January 2017, our retail premises were broken into via a 24 guard door (which should have notified the Key holder) and then the intruders walked passed a couple of PIRs (which should have called the Police). None of these two notifications took place. The burglars then tore the Galaxy 18 off the wall to stop it communicating via GSM. This allowed the intruders to get away with over £200k of stock somehow with no one knowing. We only found out the following morning that there was a break-in and notified the Police. Although the NVR was taken, the Galaxy panel was left behind. So, I'm hoping that there is someone out there that has the tools or software to read the ROM on the panel to find out actually what happened. I've attached an image of the PCB if that helps at all. I'm able to deliver the panel anywhere within the Midlands (or further if need be) and I'm happy to pay for anyone's time and service. Thanks! Shaun. Interesting police response that didn't work , as above ask your alarm maintainer what has happened seems as though there insurance may have to pay up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goncall Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 as long as it hasnt crashed engineer menu 44 will show the last set and activation entries id send it back to the maintainer or honeywell personally as any tom retrieving the data could be dragged into court as an expert witness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova-Security Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 (edited) A galaxy 18 does not have a NVM to store the log, it retains it by a battery on board which if in good condition might hold the programming and log for a month or two as we have found, but galaxy state 48hrs retention and if the battery is knacked as soon as mains and battery backup have been removed the information has gone. 20 hours ago, norman said: From experience of this type of incident the log will be full of events as the system won't have been disarmed. QFA 18 hours ago, al-yeti said: Interesting police response that didn't work , as above ask your alarm maintainer what has happened seems as though there insurance may have to pay up If it was communicating via GSM to an approved ARC did the monitoring station get a close the night before the incident ? Edited September 22, 2018 by Nova-Security 2 Quote www.nova-security.co.uk www.nsiapproved.co.uk No PMs please unless i know you or you are using this board with your proper name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 20 minutes ago, Nova-Security said: A galaxy 18 does not have a NVM to store the log, it retains it by a battery on board which if in good condition might hold the programming and log for a month or two as we have found, but galaxy state 48hrs retention and if the battery is knacked as soon as mains and battery backup have been removed the information has gone. QFA If it was communicating via GSM to an approved ARC did the monitoring station get a close the night before the incident ? Being a house basher only, op is blagging in my view Op took NVR done place over or inside job, insurance company has taken panel already and now op or someone is wondering if the log can be checked because they didn't think of it before I watch to many movies maybe..... Or hanging around you monkeys and baboons is driving me more crazy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova-Security Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 2 hours ago, al-yeti said: Op took NVR done place over or inside job, insurance company has taken panel already and now op or someone is wondering if the log can be checked because they didn't think of it before If insurance company had taken the panel, it would have been within a couple of days and they might have the log along with ARC logs. Incident Jan 17 its a bit late to try and do anything. Quote www.nova-security.co.uk www.nsiapproved.co.uk No PMs please unless i know you or you are using this board with your proper name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Nova-Security said: If insurance company had taken the panel, it would have been within a couple of days and they might have the log along with ARC logs. Incident Jan 17 its a bit late to try and do anything. I wanna be like nova! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 3 hours ago, al-yeti said: I watch to many movies maybe..... Or hanging around you monkeys and baboons is driving me more crazy IIRC security company in Manc land helped defraud an insurance co by frigging the logs, was found out and prosecuted. JB knows the tale. Quote Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova-Security Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 2 hours ago, al-yeti said: I wanna be like nova! What stressed, going more grey and wearing reading glasses due to working on to many panels in dark under the stairs cupboards! Quote www.nova-security.co.uk www.nsiapproved.co.uk No PMs please unless i know you or you are using this board with your proper name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted September 22, 2018 Share Posted September 22, 2018 22 minutes ago, Nova-Security said: What stressed, going more grey and wearing reading glasses due to working on to many panels in dark under the stairs cupboards! Sounds good lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Kamal Posted September 23, 2018 Author Share Posted September 23, 2018 Hello everyone, Thank you all for your feedback. It is greatly appreciated. Just to give you further insight into what happened, I've attached a PDF showing the chronological order of events:- Shop plan.pdf The stock in the shop is only covered up to a limit of 30k at night time with full cover during the day. Therefore, our insurers had paid out our entitled 30k leaving a hole of £170k - this obviously negates the idea of an inside job. The insurer has also mentioned that it's not in their interest to pursue our case any further due to the relatively low amount that they have had to pay out. Therefore, we have taken it onto ourselves to take the alarm company to court. Unfortunately, I have tried a few local companies who have said that the panel is too old for their equipment to read. Also, reading what Al-yeti has said, the battery on the panel is probably dead and therefore the memory/log is probably corrupt. We do have the ARC log thankfully, and it seems now that that might be the only evidence I have to rely on. It clearly shows the rear door mag sensor and PIRs triggering before the panel was torn down. After that, no further PIR’s triggered enroute to the keypad in the next room. If the panel is already down there is no way a code could have been entered into the keypad to open the system. Therefore, the case against the company is that, due to some signaling issue or problems with the hardware, the ARC received an OPEN signal from the panel being torn from the wall. I'll keep you guys in the loop with the outcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 52 minutes ago, Shaun Kamal said: Hello everyone, Thank you all for your feedback. It is greatly appreciated. Just to give you further insight into what happened, I've attached a PDF showing the chronological order of events:- Shop plan.pdf The stock in the shop is only covered up to a limit of 30k at night time with full cover during the day. Therefore, our insurers had paid out our entitled 30k leaving a hole of £170k - this obviously negates the idea of an inside job. The insurer has also mentioned that it's not in their interest to pursue our case any further due to the relatively low amount that they have had to pay out. Therefore, we have taken it onto ourselves to take the alarm company to court. Unfortunately, I have tried a few local companies who have said that the panel is too old for their equipment to read. Also, reading what Al-yeti has said, the battery on the panel is probably dead and therefore the memory/log is probably corrupt. We do have the ARC log thankfully, and it seems now that that might be the only evidence I have to rely on. It clearly shows the rear door mag sensor and PIRs triggering before the panel was torn down. After that, no further PIR’s triggered enroute to the keypad in the next room. If the panel is already down there is no way a code could have been entered into the keypad to open the system. Therefore, the case against the company is that, due to some signaling issue or problems with the hardware, the ARC received an OPEN signal from the panel being torn from the wall. I'll keep you guys in the loop with the outcome. So they knew where the panel was and time it takes to send a confirmed signal and cause confusion? Mr Alarm monkies how's that work then? Panel ripped off wall before confirmed signal goes through, would it still become confirmed with loss of site or something else ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova-Security Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Shaun Kamal said: Therefore, the case against the company is that, due to some signaling issue or problems with the hardware, the ARC received an OPEN signal from the panel being torn from the wall. Method of signalling ? Quote www.nova-security.co.uk www.nsiapproved.co.uk No PMs please unless i know you or you are using this board with your proper name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 Where is this log information from? Unless the system is sending extended formats you wouldn't see additional sensors activating on the ARC report anyway. From the diagram I would assume a lot of the system is on the entry route. Would help to see the specification of the system to make an opinion, signalling type and grade would also be on the specification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.wilson Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 can you upload the log, its seems odd if on extended reporting you got the open as it was ripped off. As above what communicator, arc and polling rate is setup? Quote securitywarehouse Security Supplies from Security Warehouse Trade Members please contact us for your TSI vetted trade discount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHappy Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 3 hours ago, Shaun Kamal said: Therefore, the case against the company is that, due to some signaling issue or problems with the hardware, the ARC received an OPEN signal from the panel being torn from the wall. Your underinsured by 85% ? Assuming there is something very wrong with the alarm, what does your contract state in regards to maxuim damages? Something like 10 times the value of the alarm ? Your alarm co. will have a comphesive specialist insurance cover for this type of event, what do you have other than the Arc report ? Quote Mr Veritas God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 Sadly you are pissing in the wind imo, most decent alarm companies will have this covered off in the contract you hold with them, something along the lines of "this is not a replacement for or an addition to any insurance policy, nor should it be taken as such" 1 Quote Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 1 hour ago, MrHappy said: Your underinsured by 85% ? Yup Quote Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Kamal Posted September 23, 2018 Author Share Posted September 23, 2018 Sadly yes, but not out of choice. Jewellers block insurance policies do not offer 100% cover of stock overnight as they do in the day. There isn't even the choice to pay a higher premium to cover at night as insurers will not take that risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Kamal Posted September 23, 2018 Author Share Posted September 23, 2018 I will upload the log for you guys to check out tomorrow. I just need to blank out a lot of personal info as its part of an on-going case. Just to make it clear of what happened:- 1. Rear door forced open - intruder signal received by ARC 2. 1st PIR triggered - confirmed intruder received by ARC 3. Police contacted by ARC but then immediately cancelled as an OPEN signal has been received 4. No further polling after this state Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Kamal Posted September 23, 2018 Author Share Posted September 23, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixwheeledbeast Posted September 23, 2018 Share Posted September 23, 2018 Dualcom GPRS G2 on pins? If Police where called then ARC did there job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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