HoofHearted Posted April 6, 2018 Author Share Posted April 6, 2018 Wow, a lot of messages since I last posted. Yes I am a Diy'er, but my day job has quite alot of electrical/electronic/programming dev/troubleshooting involvement. So i'm no redneck. I may not get the job done as quickly as the experts in here, but one beauty of the computer age is that less experienced people like me can come in here and benefit from the friendly advice which is offered so freely. No I didn't get my panel off Ebay. And wether or not I got the most appropriate panel is not a conversation I am going to get drawn into. I just picked what appeared to be a popular Pyronix panel because my previous Castle Caretech Panel (Which I fitted myself) has been excellent. Anyway back to the matter in hand.... I disconnected Wire B (+12V) inside the panel RS485, and connected my previous 12V backup battery in order to power the zems and sensors. It made no difference to the comms errors being logged. Whilst I had the battery powering everything outside the panel, I also measured the current that was being drawn from the battery. It was 280mA for the 4 zems, 8 PIR's and 4 vib sensors. I couldn't find anything in the documentation about the rated output of the PSU. But the maximum input current is 83mA @ 230V. Just doing a bit of maths... I think the PSU will be capable of delivering at least 1A and maybe 1½A @ 12V. So at most, i'm only drawing 30% of this. While I was disconnecting/reconnecting the 12V supply to the zems, I anticipated getting more comms errors being logged. Instead, I got Zem failures in the log. That got me thinking... When the panel diagnoses a comms failure, presumably it can't see the zems. So how come it doesn't log zem failures instead/also? I powered down the panel also while I reconected my bell. The comms errors are still being logged now it's back up. No doubt this thread will continue. Thanks to everyone for there input so far..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrHappy Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 (edited) 56 minutes ago, HoofHearted said: Whilst I had the battery powering everything outside the panel, I also measured the current that was being drawn from the battery. It was 280mA for the 4 zems, 8 PIR's and 4 vib sensors. I couldn't find anything in the documentation about the rated output of the PSU. But the maximum input current is 83mA @ 230V. Just doing a bit of maths... I think the PSU will be capable of delivering at least 1A and maybe 1½A @ 12V. So at most, i'm only drawing 30% of this. +150mA for the controls ? + bell, modern low current one 60mA in day call it 500ma for easy math ? lets call the 2200mA panel battery 2.5A for easy math? so just 5 hr standby I'd assume the psu to be rated 1A & assume the system will draw more than this in alarrm ? Edited April 6, 2018 by MrHappy 1 Quote Mr Veritas God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 1 hour ago, HoofHearted said: Wow, a lot of messages since I last posted. Yes I am a Diy'er, but my day job has quite alot of electrical/electronic/programming dev/troubleshooting involvement. So i'm no redneck. I may not get the job done as quickly as the experts in here, but one beauty of the computer age is that less experienced people like me can come in here and benefit from the friendly advice which is offered so freely. No I didn't get my panel off Ebay. And wether or not I got the most appropriate panel is not a conversation I am going to get drawn into. I just picked what appeared to be a popular Pyronix panel because my previous Castle Caretech Panel (Which I fitted myself) has been excellent. Anyway back to the matter in hand.... I disconnected Wire B (+12V) inside the panel RS485, and connected my previous 12V backup battery in order to power the zems and sensors. It made no difference to the comms errors being logged. Whilst I had the battery powering everything outside the panel, I also measured the current that was being drawn from the battery. It was 280mA for the 4 zems, 8 PIR's and 4 vib sensors. I couldn't find anything in the documentation about the rated output of the PSU. But the maximum input current is 83mA @ 230V. Just doing a bit of maths... I think the PSU will be capable of delivering at least 1A and maybe 1½A @ 12V. So at most, i'm only drawing 30% of this. While I was disconnecting/reconnecting the 12V supply to the zems, I anticipated getting more comms errors being logged. Instead, I got Zem failures in the log. That got me thinking... When the panel diagnoses a comms failure, presumably it can't see the zems. So how come it doesn't log zem failures instead/also? I powered down the panel also while I reconected my bell. The comms errors are still being logged now it's back up. No doubt this thread will continue. Thanks to everyone for there input so far..... Think point was enforcer wasn't a good swap for what you already had But your it now , default whole system and start again you missing something dude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrolhead Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 Did you check arc settings? I bet its trying to send a set signal somewhere and failing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrolhead Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 3 hours ago, MrHappy said: because a panel, keypad, app card & 3 zem is much dearer than an enforcer + 4 zem ? Last i checked i didnt see enforcer panel available as a seperate part you had to buy a kit and split it has that changed? From my supplier a euro46v10 with keypad and wifi card is a lot cheaper than an enforcer app kit hence my confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 2 hours ago, petrolhead said: Last i checked i didnt see enforcer panel available as a seperate part you had to buy a kit and split it has that changed? From my supplier a euro46v10 with keypad and wifi card is a lot cheaper than an enforcer app kit hence my confusion. He never answered that yet , as in where he bought it from But sounds like good one set signals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoofHearted Posted April 6, 2018 Author Share Posted April 6, 2018 @PetrolHead: i've never touched the Arc Settings. I had a quick look in there, and the first setting is "Format" and the value is 254 - Not used. So I assume I need to look no further. I found something interesting.... My internet router is 2ft below the alarm panel inside the electric cupboard. I switched it off and found that no comms errors were logged in the minutes after arming/disarming the panel. Then when I switch on the router again, the alarm panel logs a comms error at the point the router connects to the internet. I tried this 3 times to prove it wasn't a fluke. I got the same behaviour each time. I can interpret this in 2 different ways: 1. Perhaps the wifi signal is disrupting the alarm panel in some way. 2. Perhaps the comms errors being logged aren't RS485 errors at all. Perhaps they are communication errors between the panel and the Pyronix Cloud. When my router was switched off, no communication was possible. So the panel would not try to poll the server. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoofHearted Posted April 6, 2018 Author Share Posted April 6, 2018 @al-yeti: If I reveal the supplier who sold me the panel and zems, I think I would be falling into an elephant trap. Somebody is sure to say I could have got it cheaper somewhere else, or some other supplier provides better support. I'm not going there. If this issue hasn't been resolved over the weekend, i'll give them a call on Monday an see what support they offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrolhead Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 (edited) No one is trying to trap you just curious was all as it is an odd combo nothing sinister in the question just chill out its friday. Deffo signalling. Bt router with smart setup enabled? The fact you get as far as protocol suggests that arc is enabled, if arc was disabled that menu layer shouldn't be present. Retrys will probably be set to 3 with duration of 45s hence the 3 comms fails within 5 mins. Edited April 6, 2018 by petrolhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 54 minutes ago, HoofHearted said: @al-yeti: If I reveal the supplier who sold me the panel and zems, I think I would be falling into an elephant trap. Somebody is sure to say I could have got it cheaper somewhere else, or some other supplier provides better support. I'm not going there. If this issue hasn't been resolved over the weekend, i'll give them a call on Monday an see what support they offer. Geezer we just chilling man got nothing better to do except blag Where you buy it from.anyway lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrolhead Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 (edited) Adi for my sins. Mind you cant fault them recently since I stopped using my branch and going through key accounts, smooth sailing now and my account manager sorts out any niggles for me immediately. **** sorry Imran thought you were talking to me for a mo. Edited April 6, 2018 by petrolhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoofHearted Posted April 6, 2018 Author Share Posted April 6, 2018 (edited) @PetrolHead: No it's not a BT router. It's TalkTalk. TalkTalk are C##p, but compared to BT they are magnificent. Anyone care to comment on my previous post? Is it the Wifi signal that is disrupting the Panel? Or by switching off the router am i closing the comm channel and removing the possibility of Comm Errors? @Petrolhead: I've never tried to set up ARC. So I wouldn't know how to check if it's active or not. I've got some spare time tomorrow, I think i'll bite the bullet and go down the 'Clean Start' Route. Edited April 6, 2018 by HoofHearted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrolhead Posted April 6, 2018 Share Posted April 6, 2018 1 hour ago, HoofHearted said: @PetrolHead: No it's not a BT router. It's TalkTalk. TalkTalk are C##p, but compared to BT they are magnificent. Anyone care to comment on my previous post? Is it the Wifi signal that is disrupting the Panel? Or by switching off the router am i closing the comm channel and removing the possibility of Comm Errors? @Petrolhead: I've never tried to set up ARC. So I wouldn't know how to check if it's active or not. I've got some spare time tomorrow, I think i'll bite the bullet and go down the 'Clean Start' Route. It wont be wifi interference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 3 hours ago, HoofHearted said: @PetrolHead: No it's not a BT router. It's TalkTalk. TalkTalk are C##p, but compared to BT they are magnificent. Anyone care to comment on my previous post? Is it the Wifi signal that is disrupting the Panel? Or by switching off the router am i closing the comm channel and removing the possibility of Comm Errors? @Petrolhead: I've never tried to set up ARC. So I wouldn't know how to check if it's active or not. I've got some spare time tomorrow, I think i'll bite the bullet and go down the 'Clean Start' Route. Talktalk has to use bt network bt engineers, they r lunatics when you try and disconnect lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 3 hours ago, HoofHearted said: @PetrolHead: No it's not a BT router. It's TalkTalk. TalkTalk are C##p, but compared to BT they are magnificent. Anyone care to comment on my previous post? Is it the Wifi signal that is disrupting the Panel? Or by switching off the router am i closing the comm channel and removing the possibility of Comm Errors? @Petrolhead: I've never tried to set up ARC. So I wouldn't know how to check if it's active or not. I've got some spare time tomorrow, I think i'll bite the bullet and go down the 'Clean Start' Route. You buy this panel new? You have manual , what about looking it up dude Meaning arc thing I had a G2 go lunatic on me once when it wasn't seeing the hand shake ,kept sending errors until I scrapped it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoofHearted Posted April 7, 2018 Author Share Posted April 7, 2018 Yes I bought the panel new and I have the manuals. I did the 'Fresh Start' option today. It's still logging 3 comm errors after each set/unset. While I was setting it up again I saw an RS485 error. So I think that confirms that 'Comms Errors' are nothing to do with RS485. I just tried setting the alarm from my iPhone App. The same thing happened.... 3 comm errors shortly afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrolhead Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 Have you confirmed all arcs, not just the first one, are set to disabled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoofHearted Posted April 7, 2018 Author Share Posted April 7, 2018 >> Have you confirmed all arcs, not just the first one, are set to disabled? I've never had any dealings with arc settings. So unsure of where to look. In the communications menu, I can't get any further than the 'Not Used' in the Arc Details. There's a couple of relevant things in the Diagnostics section though..... Arc Status: No Arc/Net Data Last Polled Arc: Never Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted April 7, 2018 Share Posted April 7, 2018 (edited) 43 minutes ago, HoofHearted said: >> Have you confirmed all arcs, not just the first one, are set to disabled? I've never had any dealings with arc settings. So unsure of where to look. In the communications menu, I can't get any further than the 'Not Used' in the Arc Details. There's a couple of relevant things in the Diagnostics section though..... Arc Status: No Arc/Net Data Last Polled Arc: Never Turn arc on put any details in , restart panel , then goto arc details again and remove them and restart , worst you can get is more Comms errors lol Edited April 7, 2018 by al-yeti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoofHearted Posted April 8, 2018 Author Share Posted April 8, 2018 I've just realised that these 3 comm faults are also occurring after each time I exit the engineer menu at the panel. I've also found that if I try and use the iPhone app during one of these comm faults, I get a message on my iPhone saying that the panel is not polling the PyronixCloud >> Turn arc on put any details in , restart panel , then goto arc details again and remove them and restart , worst you can get is more Comms errors lol I'll try that as a last resort. I haven't a clue how to enter arc details, and re-powering the panel isn't so simple now the bell box is reconnected. I'll speak to the supplier in the morning and see what support he can offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al-yeti Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 42 minutes ago, HoofHearted said: I've just realised that these 3 comm faults are also occurring after each time I exit the engineer menu at the panel. I've also found that if I try and use the iPhone app during one of these comm faults, I get a message on my iPhone saying that the panel is not polling the PyronixCloud >> Turn arc on put any details in , restart panel , then goto arc details again and remove them and restart , worst you can get is more Comms errors lol I'll try that as a last resort. I haven't a clue how to enter arc details, and re-powering the panel isn't so simple now the bell box is reconnected. I'll speak to the supplier in the morning and see what support he can offer. What you talking about ? Just remove power and battery , bell will ring , apply power bell will stop unless you wired it up wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoofHearted Posted April 8, 2018 Author Share Posted April 8, 2018 I just dont want to disturb my neighbors. The more times they hear an false alarm, the more likely they are to ignore a genuine one. I know I can force the Bell box into hold-off mode by testing the strobe 3 times. But the enforcer doesn't have a strobe test that I can find. So I would have to go in the panel and ground the strobe signal 3 times. I can do it, but this panel is already saying it has never tried polling an arc centre. So I can't see that entering false arc settings is going to achieve anything. Each time a Comm Fault occurs, communication is restored shortly afterwards. The fact that communication is actually restored, proves that the error relates to PyronixCloud. There is no other communication configured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrolhead Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 Engineer tests, test pgm should do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Engcode1745 Posted April 10, 2018 Share Posted April 10, 2018 I have this a lot on them panels. I think it's just down to the panel dropping connection but it always seems to work ok via the app and remote connection Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petrolhead Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 And what was your solution? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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